Destiny [PS3,X360,PS4,XO]

[Deleted member 11852]

1. All the best Armor in the Tower is Lvl 20 across the board. There is no higher Armor available for purchase.

It's not unusual in MMOs to have multiple vendors carrying different ranges of gear/weapons - low/intermediate/high. Even if this is not the case, I'm sure that Bungie would wish to deliberately conceal some of the cooler weapons for alpha and beta players. They obviously don'y want much of the game to leak before release.

If you cast you mind back to Sony's E3 2013 event where three Bungie folks played the game onstage, despite the the fact the players were all level 5, one of the loot drops was a level 200 weapon. Now while I don't think there'll be 200 levels, I still think there will be more than 20. There are mobs upto (and higher) than lvl 10 in just the two maps areas in the alpha and we know there are lots more areas in the final game. I don't know how Destiny's backend (server) is setup but typically for an MMO, you want to devise discreet places so you get a distribution of players both in areas, but across virtual or physical servers - basic load balancing.

2. Several of the Skills in the Skill Tree, are unlocked through usage, not by leveling up. For example, I've already unlocked "cluster" type grenades, just from playing the game with my capped level 8 character. Once you unlock one of these skills, you select which one you want to use, they don't stack on top of each other.

I don't believe all the the final skills are shown in the skill screen. Bungie have talked about skills where simply weren't present in the alpha.

Another neat thing I found is that the weapons themselves level up through usage. So if you use a certain weapon a ton, then eventually you'll unlock a 10-15% damage booster, or some other upgrade.

I mentioned this in my long post higher in the thread. This is an interesting mechanic which does not make much sense for gear at lower levels. E.g. I found a few pieces of level 6 equipment with bonus unlocks (extra ammo capacity, faster cool downs on grenade use) but it was clearly going to take many hours, 6+ at least, to unlock some of the bonuses and before I got close to unlocking it I was already level 8 with far better equipment stats than the level 6 stuff. In terms of basic defence (armour) stats, that's always going to trump things like ammo capacity. Extra ammo is no use if you're dead because your armour is 2 levels old and only 25% as effective

Now it could be they've yet to balance this or maybe the stats are largely randomised for the alpha - it was primarily a load test, after all. But the mechanic is a good one! Often in MMOs, particularly WoW, you have a set of equipment which does not get any better while you are chasing down new items. You can often have the same armour sets or weapons for quite a while. Days certainly, sometimes weeks if not months at the very high end. Bungie's approach at least gives a sense of capability progression.

I think for the alpha they just blitzed virtually every item that was above lvl 20, weapons, gear and mobs. Where is the ghost that can fly ahead and scout out areas that we've seen? There's simply no reference to it in the apha (unless I missed it! )

 

[Cornsnake]

The low level cap also makes sense for using the same characters between SP/co-op and MP. That way they won't have to balance players of various levels in MP, and players can use the same characters between all gamemodes. They still need to do something to balance out the weapons in MP though.

I also thought the weapon upgrades were odd. Surely everything is only good as long as you don't find any thing better. No reason to get attached to it. The damage upgrade on green weapon was equal the base damage of a green weapon 1 level higher. Those at least still won't last long. Maybe the idea is that we put weapons we like but are no longer strong enough in the vault and use them again when playing through the game with a new character.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

The low level cap also makes sense for using the same characters between SP/co-op and MP. That way they won't have to balance players of various levels in MP, and players can use the same characters between all game modes.

Surely that means they'll have to do much more balancing in MP? If the level cap is 20 and can be achieved in a day or so, complete noobs will be the same level as experienced players in no time. The advantage of having a lot of levels is that you know that a lvl 60 player in WoW has several months of game experience.

I also thought the weapon upgrades were odd.

The more I think about it the more I think that a lot of the core mechanics were included in the alpha but the stats and things were semi-randomised. I guess that wanted to hint of game mechanics but probably haven't done balancing yet. I think that'll happen in the beta, where they'll be a lot more players

 

[Inuhanyou]

All the halo games were not even stable 30 and people played the crap out of those games. So why destiny which seems like it is almost locked 30 on PS4 somehow now unacceptable?

 

[Jwm]

All the halo games were not even stable 30 and people played the crap out of those games. So why destiny which seems like it is almost locked 30 on PS4 somehow now unacceptable?

Internets (it is funny to see how this flops back and forth on some sites)

 

[Arwin]

All the halo games were not even stable 30 and people played the crap out of those games. So why destiny which seems like it is almost locked 30 on PS4 somehow now unacceptable?

Heh, I actually didn't realise this, always thought the Halo games were 60fps. I only played Halo on the Xbox 1 though, so I use that for my defense.

All the Halo remakes will apparently run at 60fps though?

 

[Sigfried1977]

All the halo games were not even stable 30 and people played the crap out of those games. So why destiny which seems like it is almost locked 30 on PS4 somehow now unacceptable?

Because an obnoxiously loud minority deems it so.
I'm just hoping most developers don't put an awful lot of stock into the pixel and frame counting craze. I mean who gives a shit whether the game is any good as long as it's running at 1080p, right?

Don't get me wrong, I like my pretty graphics a lot. And when I can get a slick level of performance to go along with all the pretties, I'm the last one to complain. It's just that all that bickering over p-s and fps-s seems to be vastly more important than the actual games behind the superficial facades as of late. Heck, even the devs seem all too happy to lean into this debate.

 

[AlNom]

All the Halo remakes will apparently run at 60fps though?

Yup.

It'll be an interesting conversion to see.

 

[shredenvain]

Because an obnoxiously loud minority deems it so.
I'm just hoping most developers don't put an awful lot of stock into the pixel and frame counting craze. I mean who gives a shit whether the game is any good as long as it's running at 1080p, right?

Don't get me wrong, I like my pretty graphics a lot. And when I can get a slick level of performance to go along with all the pretties, I'm the last one to complain. It's just that all that bickering over p-s and fps-s seems to be vastly more important than the actual games behind the superficial facades as of late. Heck, even the devs seem all too happy to lean into this debate.

Well said Sir, I couldnt agree more. I myself am a graphics whore, but resolution doesnt make a game beautiful alone. Framerate is also important. A choppy game ruins the playing experience, but 60fps is not a necesity in most games. I would rather the game look consistently beautiful than a really high res choppy mess.

 

[BRiT]

You consider a solid 30fps to be "choppy mess"?

 

[RenegadeRocks]

Do I see vehicles in MP here? I think so !
also, quite some variety in gameplay there.

 

[DieH@rd]

Vehicles were present in alpha on Moon MP map.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

Vehicles were present in alpha on Moon MP map.

There was a moon map?!?? I played MP only twice and both the times I was put in that really bad looking Russia map.
So, how did the vehicles feel in MP? Personally, did u like the MP? I didn't, but I also didn't understand why I couldn't kill anyone. Maybe I had simple guns while they had high level gear n guns , I dunno.

 

[DieH@rd]

Yes, there was MP map on the Moon [home of the Wizards ] in the Alpha test.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

It all depends. I'm the type of player that if I like a game for it's gameplay I want more of the exact same gameplay just with more content. Probably why I love MMO's so much and keep playing them for years at a time. BTW - most of this post isn't direct at your. It just seemed a good jumping off point.

This is a sentiment that I understand, I played EverQuest for many years and I've been in and out (mostly in) World of Warcraft since launch. And it goes further for me, games like Burnout 2 and Motorstorm are standouts for me of where the gameplay is such a satisfying joyful experience that arbitrary things like winning or losing didn't even matter.

In an MMO, it's basically the exact same gameplay just with more content added over time. What some people think of as a "grind" many of use think of as "things to do" while getting to enjoy the gameplay that we want more of. Of course, there is a point where the can get to be too much, but that depends on the person. Some people don't feel doing X thing 100,000 times in a row is tedious while others probably balk at 10,000 things in a row, while still other's will balk at 5 things in a row (in which case MMOs and Destiny are unlikely to be your cup of tea. )

I keep going back to WoW, I've quit the damn game about three times. What keeps me coming back is that Blizzard do keep changing things up. Aside from regular tweaks to class balance, they'll occasionally shake up the classes. I remember at the start that only a few classes could solo to end game and now all can.

But the real draw for me is the core game - abilities, skills, interaction between classes (many more dynamics than Destiny) - supported by a multitude of secondary things to like like harvesting things for sale or trade skills, trade skills for progression or profit, things that are arguably relaxing like fishing plus the true sense of freedom, i.e. the ability where you can go anywhere - which really came into it's own when they allowed flying anywhere. The hours and hours I spent just exploring the world without little or no purpose, while spitballing battle plans for raid later.

I remember spending entire weekends advancing my trade skills in WoW and feeling accomplished, especially when it meant I could build this motorcycle or this helicopter (engineer here!) at the end.

In Eve Online, everyday I'd log in. Check my skill progressions, assign new skills to train if needed. Run some missions (that I've run many times in the past). Maybe do some mining. Maybe set some items to start building. Maybe do some trade runs. Same thing over and over for many years. Why? I loved the gameplay and the galaxy simulation with real economies, player interactions, and player advancement (loot and levels).

Sounds familiar! The thing is, I don't see any of this in Destiny. But I'll give the beta a fair shot before the core running and mechanics mechanics are solid.

If all of that sounds "not fun" then it is highly unlikely Destiny will be a fit for the person who read all that and went, ugh! To keep people playing there is going to be some level of "grind"/"things to do." Too little and people will stop playing the game. Too much and people might stop playing the game, although less likely they'll stop than if there was too little "grind"/"things to do."

That all sounds like fun to me but Destiny looks like a super streamlined experience. The things about traditional MMOs is they appeal to a player base is usually prepared to invest time and effort for the long haul but I'm not sure the game has enough diversions, distractions and systems to keep those players. Whether or not the more traditional shooter crowd, who I think Destiny is primarily aimed, will embrace the MMO elements is a question we'll find out in about three months.

BTW - the same will likely apply to The Division as it's also going for an MMO-like or MMO-lite experience.

The Division really appeals but yeah, I feel the same. I really hope there is enough in there for the single player,

 

[Deleted member 86764]

I played MP only twice... I also didn't understand why I couldn't kill anyone. Maybe I had simple guns while they had high level gear n guns , I dunno.

Oh man, that statement alone will stop me buying this game. If players don't start each MP match on an even standing then I'm totally not interested.

I wanna be able to start a game and still be able to beat people that have played the game for dozens for hours more than me.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Oh man, that statement alone will stop me buying this game. If players don't start each MP match on an even standing then I'm totally not interested.

In a traditional MMO your equipment will be the culmination of days/weeks/months/years of work.

Although I played the alpha all Friday Night, a lot of Saturday and much of the Sunday, I still don't "get it". I'm hoping they'll reveal more of the structure and systems for the beta which starts in a couple of weeks. But if investing a lot of time in the game does not let you enhance your gear (a common goal in most MMOs) then I'm out - unusual and rare rewards are what drive most MMO players to invest the hours.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

In a traditional MMO your equipment will be the culmination of days/weeks/months/years of work.

Although I played the alpha all Friday Night, a lot of Saturday and much of the Sunday, I still don't "get it". I'm hoping they'll reveal more of the structure and systems for the beta which starts in a couple of weeks. But if investing a lot of time in the game does not let you enhance your gear (a common goal in most MMOs) then I'm out - unusual and rare rewards are what drive most MMO players to invest the hours.

Yup I agree. Everything shown so far doesn't seem to be engaging enough that I'd want to spend years of my time in it. It's still too "MMO-lite" rather than "MMO-like." This close to launch you'd think even the starting area would be more fleshed out and engaging. Compare it to closed BETA's for many MMO's that start up 6+ months before official game launch, and what was available/shown is extremely anemic.

Then again, this was just an Alpha preview. Perhaps Beta will show a more fleshed out and engaging world with more to do and more varied things to do.

If Alpha was all I had to go by I wouldn't be interested. But since it's Alpha, I'm not going to judge the game based on it.

Regards,
SB

 

[HTupolev]

Oh man, that statement alone will stop me buying this game. If players don't start each MP match on an even standing then I'm totally not interested.

I wanna be able to start a game and still be able to beat people that have played the game for dozens for hours more than me.

You do use your own equipment in Crucible, though the core attack and health stats are equalized across the playing field. I'm not sure if it was fully worked out how special item attributes carry over, though.

 

[MfA]

Either the weapons are going to be boring as hell or you can't balance it that way. The really interesting stuff with gear are prox's, status effects etc ... and generally you get more the higher you go to keep you on the treadmill.

As much as everyone rags on WoW, simply splitting up PvP gear and PvE gear and making the PvP gear easier to earn is the right thing to do. Also PvP should be divided up in level ranges and you should be able to twink in whatever level range you want, ie. turn off XP gain, not just the level cap.