Dead or Alive 6 [XO, PS4]

[Sigfried1977]

I think neither Tekken 7 nor SC VI are great showcases for UE4. I was particularly surprised about T7 not even managing 1080p despite its moderately attractive visuals on a base PS4 system. Heck, I think TTT2 is still a more attractive looking game overall.
Granted, Street Fighter V isn't exactly a technical stunner either, but I do like the art direction a heck of a lot more in that game.

 

[AlNom]

DOA6 is using the Dynasty Warriors 9 engine for whatever reason.

Kasumi Clones. Everywhere.

j/k

 

[AlNom]

xD

 

[Nesh]

I ve seen this character announcement and I cant help but think what's wrong with fighting games these days?
Tekken and Soul Calibur have become very confusing games in terms of art direction. They over do it with flashy effects, supernatural characters, and the direction is all over the place.
Tekken used to be a homeage of all the great martial artists and martial art movies. It had a perfect balance of realism and the supernatural.
Soul Calibur also used to follow a similar path. The art direction was grounded with the supernatural element being the mystery, the legend, the peak of the game's story.
Now you ve got monsters, experiments, robots, exorcists, martial arts and movesets that are non existent or too extreme, thunders, lazers etc etc.

Dead or Alive was like the Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon of fighting games. Super cool moves, great choreographies with some pretty cool roaming and environments with different height levels. At least we didn't get elements that seemed out of place.
Or did we?
This new character shows the same route Tekken started taking since 6. Anime character that shoots lightning out of her hands? A martial art that doesnt exist?

Only Virtua Fighter is respecting it's roots. But one other thing that I still find mind boggling is the visual quality.
Fighting games used to have more detail because the developers could focus precious resources on 2 main characters and the environments. What happens on screen is better controlled and thus valuable shortcuts can be made to spice things up. All the Soul Calibur games, Tekken, DoA and Virtua Fighter games looked outstandingly detailed on Saturn, PS1, PS2, Dreamcast, and XBOX. From the previous generation and onward they looked mainly ok'ish minus Virtua Fighter 5 which I believe looked awesome.

What we get nowadays are fighting games that not only sacrifice resolution to keep the framerate target stable but more complex games have more detail.
For example Devil May Cry 5 has super detailed environments, convincing BPR. characters that are super realistic, a large amount of enemies, effects etc all at blazing 60fps.

Tekken, DOA and Soul Calibur fail to impress now. They look like a strange mix between this and the previous generation.
Even Virtua Fighter 5 the Final Showdown doesn't look all that inferior compared to the latest versions of these games. So what gives?

 

[ultragpu]

Chidori chick looks cool, barely legal tho.
I think the DOA engine is way too outdated by now, they should either revamp it completely or use UE4 or something. I hope with 12TF next gen consoles Team Ninja would present us something like this.

Spoiler

Maybe in a ND game but still, something close

 

[Nesh]

 

[Sigfried1977]

Chidori chick looks cool, barely legal tho.
I think the DOA engine is way too outdated by now, they should either revamp it completely or use UE4 or something. I hope with 12TF next gen consoles Team Ninja would present us something like this.

Spoiler

Maybe in a ND game but still, something close

Considering how the current gen UE4-powered fighting games look, I'm rather pleased Team Ninja is sticking to something proprietary. Maybe DoA isn't looking quite cutting edge, but I find it much more pleasant to look at than the dead-eyed Tekken 7 and SC6.

I ve seen this character announcement and I cant help but think what's wrong with fighting games these days?
Tekken and Soul Calibur have become very confusing games in terms of art direction. They over do it with flashy effects, supernatural characters, and the direction is all over the place.
Tekken used to be a homeage of all the great martial artists and martial art movies. It had a perfect balance of realism and the supernatural.
Soul Calibur also used to follow a similar path. The art direction was grounded with the supernatural element being the mystery, the legend, the peak of the game's story.
Now you ve got monsters, experiments, robots, exorcists, martial arts and movesets that are non existent or too extreme, thunders, lazers etc etc.

Dead or Alive was like the Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon of fighting games. Super cool moves, great choreographies with some pretty cool roaming and environments with different height levels. At least we didn't get elements that seemed out of place.
Or did we?
This new character shows the same route Tekken started taking since 6. Anime character that shoots lightning out of her hands? A martial art that doesnt exist?

Only Virtua Fighter is respecting it's roots. But one other thing that I still find mind boggling is the visual quality.
Fighting games used to have more detail because the developers could focus precious resources on 2 main characters and the environments. What happens on screen is better controlled and thus valuable shortcuts can be made to spice things up. All the Soul Calibur games, Tekken, DoA and Virtua Fighter games looked outstandingly detailed on Saturn, PS1, PS2, Dreamcast, and XBOX. From the previous generation and onward they looked mainly ok'ish minus Virtua Fighter 5 which I believe looked awesome.

What we get nowadays are fighting games that not only sacrifice resolution to keep the framerate target stable but more complex games have more detail.
For example Devil May Cry 5 has super detailed environments, convincing BPR. characters that are super realistic, a large amount of enemies, effects etc all at blazing 60fps.

Tekken, DOA and Soul Calibur fail to impress now. They look like a strange mix between this and the previous generation.
Even Virtua Fighter 5 the Final Showdown doesn't look all that inferior compared to the latest versions of these games. So what gives?

Come on now, Tekken has always been goofy. The bears, the devils, Yoshi-fucking-Mitsu - all been there since day1. I agree about the visual quality, though. Fighting games used to be the pinnacle of 3d graphics. Being fairly niche titles now, I assume their budgets simply haven't gone through the roof the same way the budgets for more popular genres have.

 

[Nesh]

Considering how the current gen UE4-powered fighting games look, I'm rather pleased Team Ninja is sticking to something proprietary. Maybe DoA isn't looking quite cutting edge, but I find it much more pleasant to look at than the dead-eyed Tekken 7 and SC6.


Come on now, Tekken has always been goofy. The bears, the devils, Yoshi-fucking-Mitsu - all been there since day1. I agree about the visual quality, though. Fighting games used to be the pinnacle of 3d graphics. Being fairly niche titles now, I assume their budgets simply haven't gone through the roof the same way the budgets for more popular genres have.

Even the bears, the devils, the Kangaroo's, Yoshimitsu and freakin dinosaurs were grounded. And the devils were the peak. You didn't see bears hitting you with salmon, doing somersaults and impossible moves. You didn't see Yoshimitsu with octopus tentacles. You didn't see anime androids with exploding heads regenerating parts, and materialising jet engines and chainsaws out of thin air etc. Almost all characters had something that reminiscent of a real martial art. All supernatural elements were characteristics of the main boss. Even Devil Jin was very grounded in Tekken 5. After that he and Kazuya became supernatural superpowerful entities that could beat the shit out of two Super Sayian Level 3 under fusion. No....Tekken is far more ridiculous than it has ever been. Tekken 4 was the most realistic, Tekken 5 was kind of ok, Tekken Tag and Tekken 3 had the perfect balance. But 6 and 7? Especially 7? It's almost as if Tekken characters are guest characters in a different kind of game. New characters look and play silly and come with a set of moves that represent no martial art. The previous games were a homeage of the real life martial art pop culture,
Now it's a Naruto in disguise. Akuma was ok for a guest character. I could accept Gon as a guest secret character too. But now we got Vampires, Final Fantasy characters, Androids, King of Fighters and other fighters with fictitious silly martial arts as main characters coming in swarms. And since all these guys are extreme, in 6 the boss has to become even more extreme so we got a skyscraper that could be eliminated by an ant sized martial artist. It also breaks the gameplay when you ve got characters like Geese, Eliza and Akuma that have 2D mechanics with combo possibilities that far exceed the rest. There is an artistic and gameplay confusion.

And another thing that really annoys is that Until Tekken 4 devastating juggling and combos was a skill. Now it is not. There are players that can produce devastating damage with very simple combinations that require zero skill.

 

[AlNom]

Marie Rose cosplay
Nickel Carbon Oxygen
DEAD OR ALIVE SIX

 

[Sigfried1977]

Meh. I like the fact that these games embrace nonsense. I'm a-okay with Alisa and her chainsaw hands. She's also the star of the CGI Tekken movie. The only enjoyable movie that company has produced so far because it was silly. They also did all those terrible Resident Evil movies which took themselves utterly seriously. As for Virtua Fighter: I always found the franchise's po-facedness rather off-putting. The peculiar mix of a ridiculously steep learning curve on one hand and the archetypical cast on the other always kept me at arm's length. To me the VF characters always seemed like the "The Asylum" versions of the Street Fighter cast. In case anyone's unfamiliar with "The Asylum". Their business model is making cheap knock-off versions of big budget Hollywood stuff. Like Transmorphers, or Paranormal Investigations, or Titanic 2. Also Sharknado.

But then I'm also a guy who enjoys the silliness of Naruto.
Not to mention the last thing I want is a photorealistic DoA game.

 

[idsn6]

I ve seen this character announcement and I cant help but think what's wrong with fighting games these days?
Tekken and Soul Calibur have become very confusing games in terms of art direction. They over do it with flashy effects, supernatural characters, and the direction is all over the place.
Tekken used to be a homeage of all the great martial artists and martial art movies. It had a perfect balance of realism and the supernatural.
Soul Calibur also used to follow a similar path. The art direction was grounded with the supernatural element being the mystery, the legend, the peak of the game's story.
Now you ve got monsters, experiments, robots, exorcists, martial arts and movesets that are non existent or too extreme, thunders, lazers etc etc.

Dead or Alive was like the Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon of fighting games. Super cool moves, great choreographies with some pretty cool roaming and environments with different height levels. At least we didn't get elements that seemed out of place.
Or did we?
This new character shows the same route Tekken started taking since 6. Anime character that shoots lightning out of her hands? A martial art that doesnt exist?

Only Virtua Fighter is respecting it's roots. But one other thing that I still find mind boggling is the visual quality.
Fighting games used to have more detail because the developers could focus precious resources on 2 main characters and the environments. What happens on screen is better controlled and thus valuable shortcuts can be made to spice things up. All the Soul Calibur games, Tekken, DoA and Virtua Fighter games looked outstandingly detailed on Saturn, PS1, PS2, Dreamcast, and XBOX. From the previous generation and onward they looked mainly ok'ish minus Virtua Fighter 5 which I believe looked awesome.

What we get nowadays are fighting games that not only sacrifice resolution to keep the framerate target stable but more complex games have more detail.
For example Devil May Cry 5 has super detailed environments, convincing BPR. characters that are super realistic, a large amount of enemies, effects etc all at blazing 60fps.

Tekken, DOA and Soul Calibur fail to impress now. They look like a strange mix between this and the previous generation.
Even Virtua Fighter 5 the Final Showdown doesn't look all that inferior compared to the latest versions of these games. So what gives?

I agree 100%. One area in which Itagaki-era Dead or Alive outshone its contemporaries was that normal gameplay, given nothing but a more cinematic camera, could look like an exciting kung fu film. The epitome of this may be the DOA4 intro:

Almost the entirety of this opening is made up of extended clips of plausible in-game fights, interspersed with a totally accurate motion-captured Baji form. No freeze frames, slow motion closeups, or bodily fluids spraying onto the screen to tell the audience when a hit had impact. Barely any story nonsense, hit flashes, or teleporting to get in the way of the action. DOA used to feel like it had a core of authentic martial arts, dialed up to 11.

Contrast the energy of the back and forth exchanges in this intro with the Nico trailer. Quick cuts of single combos with a flat camera, culminating in a trope character throwing lightning around and teleporting everywhere. Neither of the new characters in DOA6 represents a real martial art: Diego is an untrained street thug, and Nico's electric bullshit is even less true to Pencak Silat than Marie Rose's purported Systema.

This feels like the death throes of the genre. Every 3D fighting series is struggling in terms of profits, each entry teetering on the verge of death (or having succumbed, like Virtua Fighter). They do not appear to be getting the investments necessary for engine and graphical improvements, and are casting about trying to add intrusive whiz-bang flash and anime power level nonsense to try to attract casual players, without much success.

 

[orangpelupa]

Whoa the animation flows better on that old doa!

Btw

 

[Nesh]

Meh. I like the fact that these games embrace nonsense. I'm a-okay with Alisa and her chainsaw hands. She's also the star of the CGI Tekken movie. The only enjoyable movie that company has produced so far because it was silly. They also did all those terrible Resident Evil movies which took themselves utterly seriously. As for Virtua Fighter: I always found the franchise's po-facedness rather off-putting. The peculiar mix of a ridiculously steep learning curve on one hand and the archetypical cast on the other always kept me at arm's length. To me the VF characters always seemed like the "The Asylum" versions of the Street Fighter cast. In case anyone's unfamiliar with "The Asylum". Their business model is making cheap knock-off versions of big budget Hollywood stuff. Like Transmorphers, or Paranormal Investigations, or Titanic 2. Also Sharknado.

But then I'm also a guy who enjoys the silliness of Naruto.
Not to mention the last thing I want is a photorealistic DoA game.

I had no problem with "nonsense" as long as it had a proper fitting with the rest of the game. I have no problem with Naruto or Dragonball either. I still enjoy my Capcom vs Marvel thank you. The subject raised is the confusing direction of a franchise. Tekken had the perfect balance and it was grounded enough to identify with the characters.
The Tekken CGI was the most enjoyable in relation to the crap we got before. But was it a good movie? It was ok'ish to bad. It was the typical mediocre Anime with all the cliches and cheesiness you could think of ticked. Tekken was the cover to sell it. Alisa does not fit in.
I don't know what po-facedness means. The only thing I can agree with regarding VF, which I think thats what you are talking about, is the presentation. But there is zero error with it's gameplay and realistic representation of martial arts.
If you want to enjoy some "silliness" there are plenty of other fighting games out there already.

 

[Nesh]

I agree 100%. One area in which Itagaki-era Dead or Alive outshone its contemporaries was that normal gameplay, given nothing but a more cinematic camera, could look like an exciting kung fu film. The epitome of this may be the DOA4 intro:

Almost the entirety of this opening is made up of extended clips of plausible in-game fights, interspersed with a totally accurate motion-captured Baji form. No freeze frames, slow motion closeups, or bodily fluids spraying onto the screen to tell the audience when a hit had impact. Barely any story nonsense, hit flashes, or teleporting to get in the way of the action. DOA used to feel like it had a core of authentic martial arts, dialed up to 11.

Contrast the energy of the back and forth exchanges in this intro with the Nico trailer. Quick cuts of single combos with a flat camera, culminating in a trope character throwing lightning around and teleporting everywhere. Neither of the new characters in DOA6 represents a real martial art: Diego is an untrained street thug, and Nico's electric bullshit is even less true to Pencak Silat than Marie Rose's purported Systema.

This feels like the death throes of the genre. Every 3D fighting series is struggling in terms of profits, each entry teetering on the verge of death (or having succumbed, like Virtua Fighter). They do not appear to be getting the investments necessary for engine and graphical improvements, and are casting about trying to add intrusive whiz-bang flash and anime power level nonsense to try to attract casual players, without much success.

I couldnt agree more.
Funnily enough that demo attracts me more than what I ve see in the latest DOA games. That stage with the cars looks outstanding, super cool and next gen.

 

[Tkumpathenurple]

I've seen this character announcement and I cant help but think what's wrong with fighting games these days?

Tekken used to be a homeage of all the great martial artists and martial art movies.

I think the latter might inform the former.

The Raid is the only high-ish profile martial art movie I can think of within the last 10 years. John Wick flirts with the idea, but it's not a martial arts film unless you count Gun Kata.

What else is there or has there been since the Matrix?

Now all we're left with are superhero and super secret agent films, where shoddy editing is used to paper over cracks that are only there because they can't choreograph for shit.

 

[Sigfried1977]

I had no problem with "nonsense" as long as it had a proper fitting with the rest of the game. I have no problem with Naruto or Dragonball either. I still enjoy my Capcom vs Marvel thank you. The subject raised is the confusing direction of a franchise. Tekken had the perfect balance and it was grounded enough to identify with the characters.
The Tekken CGI was the most enjoyable in relation to the crap we got before. But was it a good movie? It was ok'ish to bad. It was the typical mediocre Anime with all the cliches and cheesiness you could think of ticked. Tekken was the cover to sell it. Alisa does not fit in.
I don't know what po-facedness means. The only thing I can agree with regarding VF, which I think thats what you are talking about, is the presentation. But there is zero error with it's gameplay and realistic representation of martial arts.
If you want to enjoy some "silliness" there are plenty of other fighting games out there already.

Po-faced = earnest, grave, humorless, no-nonsense, serious, etc, ...
I just like that term for some reason. I'm also not saying VF should change to cater to my needs. Just explained what's keeping me from enjoying it. And given its near non-existent popularity as of right now, probably other gamers as well.

 

[Nesh]

Po-faced = earnest, grave, humorless, no-nonsense, serious, etc, ...
I just like that term for some reason. I'm also not saying VF should change to cater to my needs. Just explained what's keeping me from enjoying it. And given its near non-existent popularity as of right now, probably other gamers as well.

Tekken always had it's humor and silliness but knew also were to stop. It didnt have to go overboard. Now it's all over the place and it didnt have to.
As for Nico she is barely interesting. You dont need generic anime characters and out of place elements to make a game interesting. She has been barely received well.
Virtua Fighter's state is a result of the Sega's home console failures, negligence (we havent seen a proper sequel since the PS3 was launched in Europe) and lack of presentation.

 

[Cyan]

Chidori chick looks cool, barely legal tho.
I think the DOA engine is way too outdated by now, they should either revamp it completely or use UE4 or something. I hope with 12TF next gen consoles Team Ninja would present us something like this.

Spoiler

Maybe in a ND game but still, something close

I like this very much. What I miss in games like DoA is Pantene hair. More realistic hair physics.

 

[AlNom]

<Nyotengu/Phase4 link is already dad>

sigh...... I know if I get it day zero, I'm just going to end up giving them more money in a year for when they bring back Momiji and Rachel plus more costumes. :|

 

[Nesh]

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