Could a PPU really change the effect of Next generation...

[Josh378]

Lets say that Microsoft puts in a tri-core CPU AND a PPU with a rumored R500. We could be looking at a VERY powerful console next gen. Could this be a disadvantage to the other consoles, such as the PS3 and Revolution (IF they don't add a PPU). Could next gen be already over in terms of hardware? I really want to know what you guys think since most of you have put much more research into this than I have. If i'm wrong, could you correct me?

Your thoughts on the matter,

Josh378

 

[pc999]

A 4 core PPE (rumors of 3 to XB2 CPU ) would be around 1/2 trans of Cell, 1 PPU would be also around 1/2 of Cell, if R500 are not much bigger than NV GPU they could be very well stay at the same price.

And about the license, well MS as a partner when launching a desktop part is very,very,very good, so no problem here.
And nobody is foll to think that MS did not know a good time ago.

In gaming terms think about Doom as todays physics then think in the 3D games from Mario 64 till now (D3,halo,HL2,FC...)

So for me or MS will have anouther thing to physics (GPU???), or we have a good chance to see a PPU in XB2.

I would like to know if programers would prefer if it is programable

 

[Polarbear53]

In regards to internet play with crazy physics, couldn't you just give player data over the net and save the deformation of geometry and such up to the ppu. I remember a dev saying it might be hard, it might not be easy, but it seems like it's reasonable for the gains.

 

[Brimstone]

In regards to internet play with crazy physics, couldn't you just give player data over the net and save the deformation of geometry and such up to the ppu. I remember a dev saying it might be hard, it might not be easy, but it seems like it's reasonable for the gains.

Thats a good question. Does a PPU make it harder, easier, or the same to have intense physics for online play.

 

[a688]

In regards to internet play with crazy physics, couldn't you just give player data over the net and save the deformation of geometry and such up to the ppu. I remember a dev saying it might be hard, it might not be easy, but it seems like it's reasonable for the gains.

Thats a good question. Does a PPU make it harder, easier, or the same to have intense physics for online play.

"Harder" if you want all of the objects to sync up because you'd have to pass all of them. Calculating them is one thing, staying in sync over a network is another.

 

[RichardCypher101]

I seriously doubt any possibility of there being a real PPU in there. I seriously doubt AGEIA has moved beyond demo silicon alone. At extreme best, it may be an add-on device, but even that, I think has zero chance

-Rich

 

[Acert93]

Re: Could a PPU really change the effect of Next generation.

Lets say that Microsoft puts in a tri-core CPU AND a PPU with a rumored R500. We could be looking at a VERY powerful console next gen.

Lets backtrack a little. Without the PPU we are still looking at a powerful home console. Look, 3 PPC cores with altered "Velocity" type vector units would put out ~80-100GFLOPs. 3 general processing cores plus a ton of floating point power to boot. Then you have a cutting edge feature set R500 (possibly with eDRAM)--all on a balance closed box that games are designed for.

A very top end PC does 20-30GFLOPs. And even when R600 comes out next year it will be a long time before games make use of the power/feature set as the *bare minimum* standard. Same with the CPUs. We wont be seeing games that require and/or make such a great use of the extra core in dual core PCs until 2007 by my guestimates.

Yes, it would be "nice" to have a PPU, but having one is not the difference between a "VERY powerful console" and a "very powerful console". Cutting edge gaming software is barely taking advantage of the CPU/GPU power in top end PCs right now. X2 will be more powerful than a top end PC at launch. Same goes with the PS3 and probably Rev in 2006.

All a PPU would really do is let the processors work more on AI and general game logic and allow the vector units to do geometry. Yes, that would be great, but not necessary. A lot of this depends on how far the PPU is along in development, how much memory the chip would need in a closed system, how much power it takes (current 25W), and the manufacturing costs (I believe they are at 125M transistors and are currently working on 130mm process). If MS can get good physics performance out of the vector units and they do not want to spend more money/deal with more heat and power issues a PPU would be dead in its tracks. Basically: Lets not hold our breath

 

[jvd]

a ppu would be nice , but i rather have another 512 megs of ram than a ppu

 

[Deepak]

a ppu would be nice , but i rather have another 512 megs of ram than a ppu

512 or 256?

 

[jvd]

a ppu would be nice , but i rather have another 512 megs of ram than a ppu

512 or 256?

another 512 megs , if i wanted 256megs more i would have said an additonal 256 megs added ... I'm not that bad at english haha

 

[RichardCypher101]

A PPU would be nice, but is everyone still disregarding the fact that a PPU more than likely will not be ready in time to implement into the X2?

-Rich

 

[Deepak]

another 512 megs , if i wanted 256megs more i would have said an additonal 256 megs added ... I'm not that bad at english haha

But would that mean total 768 MB or 1 GB? :?

 

[jvd]

Well another 512 megs would mean one gig and an additonal 256 megs added would be 756

 

[Deepak]

Well another 512 megs would mean one gig and an additonal 256 megs added would be 756

Err! 512 + 256 = 768.

 

[Acert93]

A PPU would be nice, but is everyone still disregarding the fact that a PPU more than likely will not be ready in time to implement into the X2?

-Rich

I believe they are aiming for retail in fall 2005. If that is their true goal then Ageias should already have working silicone to test and let partners and game developers look at. Companies like Epic and Ubisoft are already planning to support the hardware. I seriously doubt they would take the time and effort to support complete vaporware.

While I agree it is highly unlikely we will see a PPU in the X2, even the lack of retail availability is not really a "no go" indicator. It could very well be that up to this point that Ageias has worked closely with IBM/MS/ATI to get their HW into the X2. Now that X2 HW development is near total completion they are taking their work and retooling it for the PC. Very much like nVidia did with the Xbox chipset/nForce 4 years ago.

So if the Ageias PPU was going into the X2 a 2005 retail PC launch would actuall be surprising because X2 would obviously have consumed much of their time up to this point.

 

[Inane_Dork]

Acert makes a good point about the power of the rumored CPU design. Such CPU power is probably beyond doubling every 1.5 years with respect to the Xbox, and that's over 4 very slow years in the CPU world. I really don't see a need, providing the rumors are accurate.