Console pricing thread

[Arwin]

So, Microsoft has made the first move for this holiday, and set some agressive pricing for its various SKUs:

$199 / 179 Euro / 129 GBP for Arcade
$299 / 239 Euro / 169 GBP for Pro
$399 / 299 Euro / 229 GBP for Elite

Playstation 3 is currently at:
$399 / 399 Euro / 299 GBP

Nintendo Wii is currently at:
$249 / 249 Euro / 179 GBP

Can the Wii afford to stay at its current price? It seems like it, though in Europe it could benefit from dropping in price. Maybe just reflect the euro vs dollar a little more and drop to 219 Euro there, at least in the countries where they're not actually flying off the shelves (if there are any).

Biggest question is the PS3. I think Sony should put it at $349 / 299 Euro / 229 GBP, and include LittleBigPlanet by default on all Playstations ... but can they afford to do so?

Alternatively, make an LBP bundle at 50 extra euros, but throw in a second controller.

The reason why I'm thinking it would be a good idea to always have LBP included by default, is because of the success of the Wii with Wii-Sports being included, and then Wii-Play with the extra controller. It would raise awareness of the PS3 as an excellent online machine, it would raise awareness of motion controls (which are at least a fun addition in LBP), and it would position the PS3 more firmly back into the minds of the larger populous and encroach (not fully overlap with) the Wii market, while showing up the weakness in the 360's library.

It would also establish LBP as a new IP more effectively than anything else I can think of, give the PS3 a mascotte, and I'm sure you can earn back a lot of money on LBP (which I don't think was as expensive a game to make to begin with, compared to some titles) through services in the game itself, sequels, free press, and what not.

Maybe throw in Fl0w or even Fl0wer for free to boot. And Home?

But the big question is, can they afford something like this?

I do think though that it would be an irresponsible gamble not to at least do something with the price before this Christmas, and it should be done within a month (certainly before Thanksgiving?)

What do you guys think? Will Nintendo do something? What can/will Sony do?

 

[assen]

You think filling up a Blu-ray disk with art assets to use as building blocks in LBP was cheap?

 

[slider]

I was thinking about this too. "Who knows?" was the answer I came up with...

Nintendo. I'm not a follower of the Wii or Nintendo. Don't have one and have no desire to get one. I understand that there are some fantastic games but, IMO at least, not enough to make me desire it. But enough about slider.

I think (although could be wrong) that the Wii isn't doing as great in Europe as it is elsewhere. If that is the case the question then is, how much worse is it doing? Just going on a stream of consciousness ride, if the Arcade can sell at £129, surely the Wii can be in the same ballpark? Again, I'm speaking whilst being unaware of manufacturing costs etc. But from a layman's perspective... surely the Arcade has more "tech", and therefore cost, in it? The only obvious issue to differentiate is the wiimote? I could be wrong of course. I don't think they will drop price. At least not this year, but I think it's a shame because they could continue setting the world alight!

MS. Very aggressive pricing from MS. I can't see any strong reason for someone not to pick one up. I'm not very happy with the Arcade as a concept but that's just me. I guess for the Average Joe it all depends on how much the 360 has already saturated the market that it will sell to and how much RROD is in the public consciousness. Very strong library and such a complete experience. By the way, I don't think it's fair to say ...while showing up the weakness in the 360's library when talking about LBP. If LBP doesn't take off in a big way, the average 360 owner won't know of a type of gaming experience they're missing. However, if LBP is huge then some 360 owners or potential buyers may feel they have nothing comparable on their platform. Anyway, I think the 360 will do great this holiday season. I'd be most interested to see the split in sales between the Arcade, Pro and Elite.

Sony. I'd thought the PS3 was doing quite well but I think the 360 drop has the potential to skew perceptions a little. I think packing in LBP would be a fantastic idea. Not necessarily for any sound business reason, (altough you could make a case) but because as a marketable, attention grabbing, mind-share swaying product it has huge potential. But then I am a believer. It'll be interesting to see if Sony does make a move. I really think they'll need it. But I do wonder how and if Blu-ray, PS2 and PSP figure in Sony's Christmas plans.

 

[Arwin]

You think filling up a Blu-ray disk with art assets to use as building blocks in LBP was cheap?

How many people have been working on the game, and for how long? I'm getting the impression (from various interviews) there are 20-25 people and they've been working on the game for about 2 years. That's a bargain, I feel.

If LBP doesn't take off in a big way, the average 360 owner won't know of a type of gaming experience they're missing.

Exactly, that's why I thought LBP as a pack-in could do its job better. Of course I'm talking about perceptions, not necessarily fact. Viva Pinata for instance could be used as a counter argument by MS in some respects, as could Nuts & Bolts. But in terms of perception, it would be a good thing.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Can the Wii afford to stay at its current price? It seems like it, though in Europe it could benefit from dropping in price. Maybe just reflect the euro vs dollar a little more and drop to 219 Euro there, at least in the countries where they're not actually flying off the shelves (if there are any).

They are pretty much selling everywhere so I doubt nintendo would lower the price and I doubt even more if they'd do that because of what sony/ms is doing. Dont forget that you can already get a x360 for 300 euro's a long time so anybody that is really interrested in a x360 isnt going to care about that 50 euro's more or less.

The reason why I'm thinking it would be a good idea to always have LBP included by default, is because of the success of the Wii with Wii-Sports being included, and then Wii-Play with the extra controller. It would raise awareness of the PS3 as an excellent online machine, it would raise awareness of motion controls (which are at least a fun addition in LBP), and it would position the PS3 more firmly back into the minds of the larger populous and encroach (not fully overlap with) the Wii market, while showing up the weakness in the 360's library.

Dont think so, the nintendo case is different. Nintendo gave wii sports, which is basically a demo, away for free to show what the controller could do. It is there to show what the system is all about. LBP cant work like that. You'd have to tell and explain people whats it all about, show the online system etc. Its to complicated. With wii you'd have someone hold a wiiremote on tv and swing it and showed how the character on screen moved. The effect is clear right away with everybody.

And if i'd be sony I wouldnt be praising the motion controll that much. That would be like look what we got guys, pay almost twice as much as for a wii and you get ''motion'' sensing that isnt even half as usefull.

I do think though that it would be an irresponsible gamble not to at least do something with the price before this Christmas, and it should be done within a month (certainly before Thanksgiving?)

That all depends on what advantage you'd might get right? its not use to start losing 100 euro's extra if you might only boost your sales by 5% in the long run because of it.

 

[aselto]

I think (although could be wrong) that the Wii isn't doing as great in Europe as it is elsewhere. If that is the case the question then is, how much worse is it doing?

I don't think they're doing any worse in Europe than they are in Japan or NA, they seem to be dominating software charts in all major European markets.

MS. Very strong library and such a complete experience. By the way, I don't think it's fair to say ...while showing up the weakness in the 360's library when talking about LBP. If LBP doesn't take off in a big way, the average 360 owner won't know of a type of gaming experience they're missing. However, if LBP is huge then some 360 owners or potential buyers may feel they have nothing comparable on their platform.

It is total nonsense whether LBP is successful or not. LBP is, at the end of the day, a glorified 2D platformer and while it might be appealing to many, it's just one niche that PS3 covers and 360 does not. Nothing to be so dramatic about.

It is worth noting that PS3 will get a new SKU in November, with 160GB and Uncharted for $499. It probably won't bring new customers, but it'll probably be a nice option for those who like to have everything premium - last Christmas $499 SKU outsold $399 SKU by 20% in the US.

 

[slider]

I don't think they're doing any worse in Europe than they are in Japan or NA, they seem to be dominating software charts in all major European markets.

Good point, the softwares charts are as good a start point as any.

It is total nonsense whether LBP is successful or not. LBP is, at the end of the day, a glorified 2D platformer and while it might be appealing to many, it's just one niche that PS3 covers and 360 does not. Nothing to be so dramatic about.

Sorry, where did you get drama from? My point was if LBP, "a glorified 2D platformer", is huge (as in cultural phenomenon huge) then, perhaps, 360 only owners will be intrigued. But that's not the topic at hand.

 

[slider]

Exactly, that's why I thought LBP as a pack-in could do its job better. Of course I'm talking about perceptions, not necessarily fact. Viva Pinata for instance could be used as a counter argument by MS in some respects, as could Nuts & Bolts. But in terms of perception, it would be a good thing.

All three have a lot of potential. But I think I'm guilty of the following thought process

Wii is for casuals... (i.e. not hardcore players).

Wii is very successful.

If MS and Sony make what appears to be a non hardcore game they too will be successful.

Oh dear. But I do like the idea of LBP bundled. When you have a product so (seemingly) good it'd be a real shame if it wasn't able to play to as big an audience as possible.

 

[NERO]

Nintendo would be (but is not) stupid to price drop the Wii. If I'm not mistaken demand outpaces supply by a great margin.

This holiday season Microsoft and Sony (only the former has announced) will both benefit from pricecuts not only of their own consoles but of their shared software. A GTA4 pricecut comes to mind.

Microsft could probably solidify second place with their pricecut.

Sony will try to disrupt the market (apparently) not by cutting price but by releasing what they are banking on being disruptive software - LBP. I don't know if this is going to be the case but it would be nice to see them package this game with one of the lower skus. I just don't know what to make of LBP - although I am excited to try it myself - so I wonder how Joe consumer's children (and Joe) will react to it.

 

[Acert93]

Sony and MS do have a fair number of casual games, even major licensed games. Their "problem" is the Wii has swiftly targeted this market as the focus of their entire experience: controls, software library, marketing (especially commercials), etc. Heck, when their competitors effectively launched at $400 Ninny came in at $250. While "casual" play is "an" experience on the PS3 and 360, casual play is "the" experience on the Wii. Hence a title like Madden sells poorly on the Wii (but gangbusters on the others, with more traditional consumers) and vice versa.

Nintendo captured a huge section of casual gamers and has a lock on that mindshare; the result is cyclical in that that is were these development dollars are going, word of mouth influences, etc. Unless something causes a major market disruption to shift this image no amount of "casual games also" will be able to unseat Nintendo's strength in this market with the Wii.

Something like a cheaper console, packed in with a major casual title, casual controls, and "packaging" (marketing, retail box, demo disks, user interfaces, etc) squarely aimed to transform the experience for this market and aimed to highlight Sony/MS have a worthwhile product to compete, even surpass, Ninny in this martet they have no "hope" of hindering Ninny's success. Not to say they cannot have marginal successes and make inroads, but making non-hardcore games isn't enough. Build it... and they don't always come.

 

[scooby_dooby]

MS. Very aggressive pricing from MS.

$299 for the Pro, nearly 3 full years after launch can't be considered aggressive.

Honestly I don'y think Sony needs to do anything, they're gonna sell fine this Holiday, the machine is taking off and people are coming onboard in a steady stream. The quality of the machine and it's bluray playback will sell it this holiday, and they can worry about lower pricepoints next year.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

$299 for the Pro, nearly 3 full years after launch can't be considered aggressive.

The European prices are quite aggressive though. 239€ for the Pro is an amazing deal and in Scandinavia we are looking at 239€ Pro vs about 480€ for the PS3 unless Sony does something. And Arcade unit can't be overlooked either with these prices and software lineup MS is in good position and they are clearly playing their A game at the moment.

 

[aselto]

Sorry, where did you get drama from? My point was if LBP, "a glorified 2D platformer", is huge (as in cultural phenomenon huge) then, perhaps, 360 only owners will be intrigued. But that's not the topic at hand.

Due to my poor wording, there's a slight misunderstanding here. "Drama" didn't refer to your statements, but to the "360 doesn't have LBP, therefore 360 is in no position to compete with PS3" etc. mentality, which I think is nonsense.

Not only it has yet to prove itself to have potential to be that cultural phenomenom thing, it also has to overcome $399 point of entry. I actually think it may become very successful wihin current console userbase, but I don't think it can reach status similar to Wii titles (Wii Fit etc.), because these had extensive publicity in general media and LBP doesn't have it.

As for people who are already hesitating between 360 vs PS3, well if LBP really resonates with them that much and they are willing to spend significantly more money on PS3, then they will buy PS3. Otherwise LBP won't steal many customers from 360, but how big is that group of people?

 

[Zassk]

LBP and Nuts&Bolts and even VP2 are excellent candidates to be pack-ins, eventually, sometime in 2009. I'm sure they are considered investments by the first parties to draw wider audiences at key price points. But this holiday season is too soon for them to be pack-ins, IMO.

 

[slider]

$299 for the Pro, nearly 3 full years after launch can't be considered aggressive.

Honestly I don'y think Sony needs to do anything, they're gonna sell fine this Holiday, the machine is taking off and people are coming onboard in a steady stream. The quality of the machine and it's bluray playback will sell it this holiday, and they can worry about lower pricepoints next year.

My view is probably coloured by two things. What I paid for my Elite and the SKU prices relative to the competition. That's where my "aggressive" came from. I mean... £129 for an Arcade? That's comparable to the PS2.

I am intrigued by how the PS3 will do though. I think it may get a lot of business from those buyers who already have a 360. And, as you say, I think Blu-ray could have a part to play.

Due to my poor wording, there's a slight misunderstanding here. "Drama" didn't refer to your statements, but to the "360 doesn't have LBP, therefore 360 is in no position to compete with PS3" etc. mentality, which I think is nonsense.

Not only it has yet to prove itself to have potential to be that cultural phenomenom thing, it also has to overcome $399 point of entry. I actually think it may become very successful wihin current console userbase, but I don't think it can reach status similar to Wii titles (Wii Fit etc.), because these had extensive publicity in general media and LBP doesn't have it.

As for people who are already hesitating between 360 vs PS3, well if LBP really resonates with them that much and they are willing to spend significantly more money on PS3, then they will buy PS3. Otherwise LBP won't steal many customers from 360, but how big is that group of people?

Ahh, nothing to see here then. I'm largely in agreement. Thanks for clearing it up though.

More specifically to the topic at hand I'm very taken with the idea of bundling LBP in. It won't happen but there's a lot to be said for it (obviously from a non-business perspective).

 

[-tkf-]

The European prices are quite aggressive though. 239€ for the Pro is an amazing deal and in Scandinavia we are looking at 239€ Pro vs about 480€ for the PS3 unless Sony does something. And Arcade unit can't be overlooked either with these prices and software lineup MS is in good position and they are clearly playing their A game at the moment.

The reason it´s an "amazing deal" is that the PS3 is once again selling in Europe. As i understand it i can buy a 360 with a harddrive cheaper than a Wii right now.

 

[PARANOiA]

If Nintendo wants to perfectly match demand for the Wii, they need to raise the price. I know it's been thrown around mostly tongue-in-cheek, but seriously, going into the third Christmas with demand exceeding supply and no price drops is just silly.

 

[Archgamer]

Nintendo really doesn't need to do ANYTHING. Every price cut MS & Sony has done has not affected the Wii sales at all. I'm willing to bet that we won't see a Wii price cut until 2010. As long as they are ahead on a monthly basis that are happy.

Sony should offer another sku if they are not planning a price cut. Maybe bring back a 40 gig PS3 without WiFi for 349. The 80 gig and 160 gig can stay the way they are at right now. They have a nice Fall line up too with LBP and R2 for games. Ironman and TDK for blu-ray.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

LBP and Nuts&Bolts and even VP2 are excellent candidates to be pack-ins, eventually, sometime in 2009.

LBP bundle including box-art.

 

[liolio]

The price in BENELUX (Belgium, Netherland, Luxembourg) is outstanding!
arcade € 149,99
Pro € 199,99
Elite € 249,99
Really attractive, may do a trip to Bruges or Bruxel soon... another excuse to try new good beers...