Makes you wonder if the year head-start MS had also gave them a big advantage on the exclusives/timed deals they got last gen - maybe also explains why both didn't want the other to have a head-start this gen...now the 'dust has settled' Sony are in a much stronger position (compared to last gen) due to h/w sales and as such have managed to seal so many deals (CoD was a massive win and statement of intention IMHO).
Console Exclusives: Are you for or against them & why?
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Makes you wonder if the year head-start MS had also gave them a big advantage on the exclusives/timed deals they got last gen - maybe also explains why both didn't want the other to have a head-start this gen...now the 'dust has settled' Sony are in a much stronger position (compared to last gen) due to h/w sales and as such have managed to seal so many deals (CoD was a massive win and statement of intention IMHO).
About the initial discussion, my main reason for buying consoles is exclusive software, be it built in functionality or games. I don't know how typical i am as a consumer because i always owned a PC that could run all current games + a console of choice (I went from PS1 -> Xbox -> Xbox 360/Ps3 -> Ps4). For me, a console without exclusives i am interested in is a console that i won't buy and have no reason to. I also generally avoid playing games that are available on PC on my console as i can 99% of the time run it at higher res/fps.
So if those games weren't exclusive and were available on PC, you could save yourself a few hundred dollars every gen. Isn't that preferable to spending hundreds on hardware as a barrier to entry to software that other hardware you own could run?
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But would those first party companies exist if it wasn't for funding from the console manufacturers?
If those games weren't exclusives they wouldn't be available, at least not in their current form. How can i claim such a thing? I play most games on PC and i've noticed a distinct lack of AAA titles, the last major PC AAA exclusive that pushed the hardware and was truly standout in the market was the first Crysis back in 2007, and that flopped sales wise. Now PC has a heavy focus on MMOs/Mobas and various other F2P games which are very profitable for companies like Riot, Blizzard, NCSoft etc. It's nice to hypothesize about a unified market but most of AAA console exclusive games (Halo, Uncharted, Forza, GT, TLOU etc.) are created out of need to increase the competitive value of the console they are developed on, and this usually means bigger budget and better QA before release. Consumers nowadays expect console exclusives to be pushing boundaries, to be great experiences, running smooth and be polished. At least that is my reason for going with Ps4 this gen alongside my PC, because i was fully satisfied with the exclusive games released on the Ps3 last gen.
Chicken and egg arguments. If the consoles didn't exist, people wanting to make games like Uncharted would be targeting PC. The PC market would be much bigger and the revenues would be there. It's all very well saying the console AAA are created to increase console value, but the real reason they exist is to turn a profit. Every decent AAA console exclusive is profitable, even after crazy investment, and sell on the value of their quality. These same games would sell more and make more profit if they were available to more gamers.
The value to the console and ecosystem benefits aren't what gamers gain from exclusivity, by what the console companies gain from exclusivity for their business. As mentioned before, it'd be exactly the same as having a different movie playing device for each of the major publisher. In a world with one box for WB moves, and another for Fox, and another for Sony and another for Disney, you'd be arguing that the reason you buy the Disney box is access to the Marvel movies and the reason these movies exist is to sell the boxes. Movies don't need dedicated hardware to make them worthwhile or successful investments. Books don't need proprietary readers to make them profitable and valuables. Games don't need proprietary boxes to justify their existence.
The value to the console and ecosystem benefits aren't what gamers gain from exclusivity, by what the console companies gain from exclusivity for their business. As mentioned before, it'd be exactly the same as having a different movie playing device for each of the major publisher. In a world with one box for WB moves, and another for Fox, and another for Sony and another for Disney, you'd be arguing that the reason you buy the Disney box is access to the Marvel movies and the reason these movies exist is to sell the boxes. Movies don't need dedicated hardware to make them worthwhile or successful investments. Books don't need proprietary readers to make them profitable and valuables. Games don't need proprietary boxes to justify their existence.
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I don't agree that if consoles didn't exist that all gamers would automatically become PC gamers and the market would be just as large. It's a fallacy. Consoles exist because people want ease of use machines to simply play games on. This is a benefit because it also means that the manufacturers can make money on every game sold on their machine and also build on a franchise.
I'm pretty sure that not all first variations of franchises were immediately successful and profitable. An environment where non-profitable games will simply not see a sequel, would likely mean we wouldn't have something like an Uncharted 4
I'm pretty sure that not all first variations of franchises were immediately successful and profitable. An environment where non-profitable games will simply not see a sequel, would likely mean we wouldn't have something like an Uncharted 4
If that was the case we'd have AAA games on PC, why don't we? Is Naughty Dog the only dev that can make Uncharted or TLOU? IS Bungie the only one that can make Halo (apparently not)? Why didn't they release Destiny on PC? If PC is that great why didn't R* release RDR on PC yet? Why is the PC market saturated with F2P, Mobas and MMOs?
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The PC market would be bigger but to what degree is debatable (and unknowable). Several cross-platform developers, most recently CD Projekt Red (The Witcher 3), have explicitly said that their games are only possible at the scale they are becuase because they are cross-platform, i.e. the large revenue stream from console owners.
If consoles ended with this generation then AAA games will diminsih to some degree unless a large number of console gamers switch to gamong on PC. This could be a dreadful chicken and egg scenario with old console owners only willing to be a decent gaming PC once the AAA games appear and developers only wanting to invest in a PC AAA games once there is a sufficient market. I do not think a huge number of console owners.
Without an equivilency in the potential market, the risk of failure is even greater and there doesn't seem to be a great deal of risk taking in the gaming world even now. Fundamentally I do not believe the type of people who like to play games on their big TVs from their sofa will necessarily just switch to gaming on a PC any more than investing their time andmoney in another leisure pursuit entirely.
Buying an Xbox or PlayStation to play games at decent enough quality is easy. Buying a PC should be but isn't anywhere near as easy. I'd dearly love to see an 'Xbox' startup mode added to Windows 10 that worked with nothing but a controller and never reqired a keyboiard or mouse.
that wasn't quite what I was saying. That's the hypothetical argument based on Clukos's position; the real argument is that AAA games would still exist even if platform exclusivity didn't. The argument that platform exclusivity funds AAA title is a fallacy - games that sell funds AAA development. If there's an install base of machines that can play something like Uncharted, and gamers who want to play games like Uncharted, games like Uncharted would get made and sell (see cross platform Tomb Raider reboot for example). Software is a business that supplies to the consumer demand. The consumer demand is for games, not for games that only run on a particular brand of device.
We do. GTA and Tomb Raider and everything else. We didn't in the past because PC was competing with console. If PC wasn't competing with console (or all software was readily cross platform), we'd still have the same AAA games, just without them being limited to specific hardware.
You do realize that this isn't countering what he said ?
He said w/o console markets those people would game on PC, so those games would still be made but for PC only, and you say with fragmented market (because consoles) games need be mutli systems...
So you are agreeing.
Blizzard and Steam are very much like PC AAA exclusive developers. The PC space is filled with titles that may not exist on the console landscape: in particular CS:GO, Quake, etc. for FPS games. It's also filled with a magnitude larger order of RTS and strategy games, MMOs and MOBAs.
They share the same fighters as well, so PC space is only really missing out some notable exclusive 3rd person action games.
The only perspective I have is whether developers prefer platform exclusivity, and I think the honest answer is yes.
Perhaps with the release of DX12 PC won't be as much of a hassle to program for, but that doesn't apply to all developers in the PC space.
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Are all replies supposed to be direct contrary views to that of the original poster?
Shifty's post began with off with "Chicken and Egg arguments" and I wanted to expand on this with my thoughts and that's why I quoted just this bit for my post.
Talking about exclusives, not ports straight from consoles.
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Deleted member 86764
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And the games that sell well on PC are not the same games that sell well on consoles. In fact I'd go as far as to say the games are very different, PC games tend to be more of the subcription type. And yes, I'm aware there is some crossover between them. Yes, PC does have some AAA exclusive games, but they’re a very different kind of game.
The market for gaming has evolved in such a way that systems have segmented for several reasons. I happen to think the market would be very, very different if consoles were not to exist – not for the better either. Even if it meant no exclusivity.
The 'videogaming' market on a single system would be substantually diminished.
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Deleted member 11852
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Definitely not brand but perhaps type of device, i.e. any console over a PC?
I manage a server farm, I know my way around the Windows, BSD and linux kernals but my preferred choice of box to game on at home is still a [almost] zero-maintenance controller-driven box that I can forget about. Sony and Microsoft make gaming really easy and while it's not that much more complicated on PC, there is some baggage when you game conventionally (PC, monitor, mouse, keyboard) and a few more things to consider if you plugging into a TV and don't want to have to have a keyboard and mouse around.
There's increasing evidence that more and more people are using their phones and tablets for traditional computing tasks so getting those they have left their PC behidn to re-engage may be more of a trick.
Would developers create blockbuster games if it wasn't for consoles? Or would it shift to F2P with micro-transactions because this is what's profitable right now on PC. Top three played games on steam right now, two are free to play and the other one costs about 5$:
League of Legends is also another extremely popular F2P game on PC. Just purely from a business standpoint it doesn't make sense to fund a AAA single player experience on PC right now. Would that change if it wasn't for consoles?
League of Legends is also another extremely popular F2P game on PC. Just purely from a business standpoint it doesn't make sense to fund a AAA single player experience on PC right now. Would that change if it wasn't for consoles?
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I would argue that for multiplatform games, consoles hold back the baseline of perforamnce because they are set in stone with six or seven years.
This isn't supposed to be a PC discussion. 
That's only raised because Cluckos said the reason for him to own any console was the games on that console that weren't available on his PC. Ergo, if those games were available on PC, he wouldn't need a console. At which point the discussion becomes one of whether platform exclusivity does or doesn't create the existence of games. I argue it doesn't. A future or past that was only PC or not isn't really relevant where it's only a reference point.
Another hypothetical is if the 8 bit MSX standard took hold and spawned MSX consoles and since then, in our alternate 2015, gaming consists of PCs and MSX consoles from a variety of manufacturers that can all play the same games. There is no Wii U nor XB nor PS. There's only 'La Console from Panasonic' and 'La Console from Mitsubishi' and 'La Console from Samsung', which all play the same games, which sell 150+ million per generation across all makes.
In this hypothetical world, would the likes of Uncharted not exist simple because it can only exist as a 'multiplat'?
That's only raised because Cluckos said the reason for him to own any console was the games on that console that weren't available on his PC. Ergo, if those games were available on PC, he wouldn't need a console. At which point the discussion becomes one of whether platform exclusivity does or doesn't create the existence of games. I argue it doesn't. A future or past that was only PC or not isn't really relevant where it's only a reference point.Another hypothetical is if the 8 bit MSX standard took hold and spawned MSX consoles and since then, in our alternate 2015, gaming consists of PCs and MSX consoles from a variety of manufacturers that can all play the same games. There is no Wii U nor XB nor PS. There's only 'La Console from Panasonic' and 'La Console from Mitsubishi' and 'La Console from Samsung', which all play the same games, which sell 150+ million per generation across all makes.
In this hypothetical world, would the likes of Uncharted not exist simple because it can only exist as a 'multiplat'?
