CONFIRMED: PS3 to use "Nvidia-based Graphics processor&

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Pugger said:
But wouldn't putting the Nvidia tech on a cell be a complete waste and costly? Why would Nvidia want to destroy there bread and butter market IE PC's if the Sony version of their tech blows it spec wise? Yep they're going to make $5 a machine form Sony but when you consider the amount the make from a PC card it would seem slightly ascew.


Errrmmm... Ps2 sold 75 million units so far, let's say (purely theoretical and to keep the numbers easy to manage) that by the end it sells 100million.

Also, let's say PS3 does as well, and it sells 100millions too. That's 500million Nvidia will make, plus any advances on expenses Sony might have paid them for developing the GPU with them.

That is A LOT of money, much more than they would do just by selling PC cards. And all from one single chip they have to design and will stay the same for at least 5 years.
Plus they will make money off their usual PC market, video cards, motherboards, sound solutions... That 500million from ONE single project is a nice little bonus if you ask me.

Why do you think that ATI and IBM and Nvidia and all the others entered the console market? Cause it is very profitable to everyone apart from Ms and Sony :LOL: J/k
 
London all that true but none of the other GPU companies have given a chip to consoles thats completely different from the PC versions and more powerful (except when they say custom and mean a few tweaks). And if you beleive all the bluster about Cell isn't what that going to be? Wouldn't Nvidia then find themselves in th eposition of playing catch up with their own tech. As I've said I really don't understand anything technical so sorry if it doesn't make sense.
 
Pugger said:
London all that true but none of the other GPU companies have given a chip to consoles thats completely different from the PC versions and more powerful (except when they say custom and mean a few tweaks). And if you beleive all the bluster about Cell isn't what that going to be? Wouldn't Nvidia would then find themselves of playing catch up with their own tech. As I've said I really don't understand anything technical so sorry if it doesn't make sense.

I've edited my post, might be a bit clearer.
In the end, if Nvidia comes up with a new GPU that's more advanced than their PC counterparts, they will use the knoweldge they gained from this very profitable project in their PC units, if it is possible, given obvious PC compatibility issues.

This project is pretty much like gold falling from the sky for Nvidia. Whatever happens, they'll make money. Ps3 will not sell ultra low, that's a given, so it's a safe bet for them.

The big risk is on Sony's shoulders, they're the ones paying a whole lot of people they have collaborated with.
 
Don't know if anyone's posted this before... But since it's being fabbed by sony and they've been working closely with them, could it've been optimized for a high-clock speed?
 
zidane1strife said:
Don't know if anyone's posted this before... But since it's being fabbed by sony and they've been working closely with them, could it've been optimized for a high-clock speed?

It will be as fast as they can clock it... (stating the obvious much?)
 
london-boy said:
You guys got it all wrong. Sony will market PS3 with posters on the walls depicting a clock. And a cat. And a black swizzley thing over them. And a guy in the background with a big nose and no mouth and with eyes of a dodo. They've done worse than that.

Sony......bony....
 
Yes, but it is a serious question - have they licensed S3TC, if so when, and was it for PSP? The point being, NVIDIA has open access to the S3TC patents and I would find it a surprise that Sony would need to license it for PS3 with NVIDIA's hardware in mind; it might give an indication as to when the actual hardware deal timeframe was.
 
DaveBaumann said:
Yes, but it is a serious question - have they licensed S3TC, if so when, and was it for PSP? The point being, NVIDIA has open access to the S3TC patents and I would find it a surprise that Sony would need to license it for PS3 with NVIDIA's hardware in mind; it might give an indication as to when the actual hardware deal timeframe was.

I'm pretty sure PSP has S3TC. However, i'm not sure if their partnership with NVIDIA gives them free access to the patents for any other platform other than the one NVIDIA are working on - PS3.
What i mean is, now that NVIDIA is on board on PS3, does that mean that Sony can freely use NVIDIA's patents for any other platform they intend to create, such as PSP?
 
From S3 Graphics S3TC Technology is Adopted in Sony Computer Entertainment's PlayStation® Portable
"We are pleased to adopt S3 Graphics S3TC technology in PlayStation® Portable," says Masayuki Chatani, Corporate Executive and CTO, Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. "S3TC technology allows PlayStation® Portable software developers to take advantage of very high quality texture compression technology and benefit from a range of proven tools and libraries."
[edit] Dave..you have still to answer my question regarding NVIDIA and Microsoft meetings about WGF...;) maybe you have the answer..too bad you can't just tell us..

ciao,
Marco
 
I find this Sony-Nvidia partnership to be puzzling because Ken Kutaragi always dismisses PC architecture to be "at its limits" and the progress of moore law to be too slow for his creations. Yet now sony is in bed with a very PC centric chip designer - this would lead one to believe that this new gpu is really what Jen Shun says it is - a new as yet unseen architecture. I suspect what will end up in PS3 is the original internal sony gpu design with certain nvidia technologies (e.g. shaders) bolted on.

Then again it could also be the usual marketing BS and they slap in a beefed up Geforce GPU.
 
london-boy said:
Even if MS wanted to, they still wouldn't be able to buy any of those. It's a liiiittle bit more complicated than "having the cash and wanting to buy". :D

Actually it's not, if you have enough cash.

It's called a hostile takeover. It's how IBM bought Lotus in the ninties, and how Oracle is in the process of buying Peoplesoft right now.

All you have to do to take over a publically traded company is own enough company stock that you can outvote anyone against you.

To get more stock than anyone else in the company, you offer a stock price high enough that shareholders can't resist the temptation to sell it to you.

There are a variety of defenses.

A common one is called a "poison pill". The idea being if someone tries a hostile takeover, the company issues new shares to existing owners automatically. This usually causes the share value to self-destruct (hence "poison pill"), but increases the holdings of the existing owners of the company, thereby making it harder for someone to get enough to take over the company -- but not impossible, depending on how much cash the attackers have.

Microsoft could probably afford to buy Sony regardless of any defense Sony could put up. Sony's total market cap is about 33 billion dollars, and Microsoft (pre-dividend) had $75+ billion in cash and much more in financing if they wanted to borrow the money to do it (Microsoft has zero debt).

Of Sony's total shares, only 16% are held by insiders of the company and institutions, meaning 84% of shares are on the open market and may be buyable should the price be driven high enough.

That said, it's quite likely that if MS were to try this, they'd get US antitrust involved again -- aside from the fact that Sony is a company with significant debts (12 billion+) and a tiny profit margin (1.38%), and a totally different corporate culture.

Hostile takeovers also tend to destroy high tech companies. Unhappy employees will just leave the target company and work for someone else rather than stay, taking the most valuable asset of any high tech company with them: employee skills and knowledge.

All these factors make Sony a rather unappetizing takeover target for MS and a waste of tens of billions if they tried it. The key point is that IMHO, MS *could* probably do it if they really really wanted to -- but they don't want to, for a lot of very good reasons.
 
-tkf- said:
Titanio said:
london-boy said:
Well we will really have to wait and see cause one source says it's a hybrid between Sony's and nVidia's architectures, the other says it's not cell based.... :?

Someone said specifically that it wasn't cell based :?:

Problem is we don't know what he was talking about :)

He talks about the next-gen nVidia and the PS3 GPU seperately. I think it's quite clear that he's saying the next-gen nVidia (i.e. their own chip they will sell themselves) won't be cell-based, but that he doesn't want to comment on the PS3 GPU, which leaves a question mark over it.
 
"It will be a custom GPU, not based on an existing architecture," said Jen-Hsun Huang, speaking at an "Editor's Day" for reporters and analysts at the company's Santa Clara, Calif.-based headquarters. "It will be based on an architecture under development." Neither Nvidia nor Sony disclosed further details about the new architecture.

The custom graphics processor unit (GPU) will merge Nividia's next-generation GeForce technology with SCEI's system solutions.

And from page 2 of this thread:

He specifically talked about doing away with texture mapping and spoke of more "physics" based modeling.

So what could this custom GPU (NV50?) be? A complete merger of the Sony/Toshiba and the Nvidia approach or an Nvidia GPU with some Sony additions or a Sony GPU with Nvidia technology in it?

Fredi
 
¿Are you sure that PS3 needs a Teraflop CPU?

See Xenon, we have 3 cores at 3.5Ghz and probably with an VMX each.

-PowerPC FPU (2 op cycle)= 7GFLOPS per Core= 21GFLOPS per die.
-VMX FPU (4 op cycle)= 14GFLOPS= 42GFLOPS per die.

The total is 63GFLOPS for Xenon CPU.

Take one PE at 4Ghz and you can outmatch Xenon CPU in performance, I don´t know why the people talks about a Teraflop CPU when is not necesary.
 
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