Can there be a scriptless game?

[blakjedi]

I mean where there is no real script - just consequences and AI for those consequences.

For example, I'm driving down the road midnight on the way to a party. My rival my be going down the same road because where he lives in the game road it may a) be easier to go down that road or b) there may be traffic on the alternate routes or c) he likes to drink before he goes to the party and the liquor is on the way.

Some how or other, I run into him and voila we end up in a fire fight. Which other people report to the police who come to the scene...

Wouldn't GTA be great like that?

 

[Bobbler]

Sure, but I'm not really sure how practical it would be.

The more complex you make it the closer it'd get to prohibitively expensive -- and you're going to have to make it pretty complex to rival what you can fake with scripts.

 

[weaksauce]

How would you control a story?

 

[Zaphod]

I mean where there is no real script - just consequences and AI for those consequences.

Check out articles on Will Wright's Spore. Seems a bit like what you're describing: A huge AI sandbox.

 

[scooby_dooby]

I mean where there is no real script - just consequences and AI for those consequences.

For example, I'm driving down the road midnight on the way to a party. My rival my be going down the same road because where he lives in the game road it may a) be easier to go down that road or b) there may be traffic on the alternate routes or c) he likes to drink before he goes to the party and the liquor is on the way.

Some how or other, I run into him and voila we end up in a fire fight. Which other people report to the police who come to the scene...

Wouldn't GTA be great like that?

Oblivion is kinda like that, as far as NPC's go. AI doesn't have scripts, just objectives, and they figure out how they're gonna get it done.

For example, in this months OXM it explained a scene where they and 2 other recruits had to steal a diary from someone, to join the thieves guild. To their surprise, one female NPC actually outwitted them and got the diary first..luckily they managed to pick pocket here as she left. This is all unscripted...

That's the cool, random kinda stuff I like to see.

Another example is you can be going through a dungeon, and suddenly there might be an NPC running around trying to gather your treasure, he's not scripted to do it, rather he just has the goal to 'make money' and has decided this dungeon is as good as any...

Another one they gave, is each NPC will have a goal like eat lunch at noon, they will independantly choose a restaurant to go to, walk there, select their preferred table at random, sit down and decide which meal they would like to have, it will be different everytime. All non-scripted, decision based AI, very cool...

 

[ERP]

I mean where there is no real script - just consequences and AI for those consequences.

For example, I'm driving down the road midnight on the way to a party. My rival my be going down the same road because where he lives in the game road it may a) be easier to go down that road or b) there may be traffic on the alternate routes or c) he likes to drink before he goes to the party and the liquor is on the way.

Some how or other, I run into him and voila we end up in a fire fight. Which other people report to the police who come to the scene...

Wouldn't GTA be great like that?

At some level you have to be able to describe the core interactions, firing a weapon, taking cover, drinking coffee, these would still in some ways be scripts.

The rest is down to approach, a lot of games do not run scripts to make decisions, but their decision making is limited to how well they can describe the situation in the world view of the AI and what actual actions the AI has available (see above).

The Sims for example has no scripts in the sense of if condition X then decide to do Y, it selects actions (the actions themselves are scripted) based on a metric that it attempts to constantly maximise. Other games use this or similar approaches. It's downside is it's both unpredictable and difficult to tune, so designers can't decide that "if the player does this.. I want the AI to do that". This approach also doesn't play well with story, it's difficult to guarantee than an actor will do what the designer wants in all circumstances.

 

[GB123]

Would Spore not fit into this category.?

 

[Ragemare]

Depends on your definition of scripting, in a way Oblivion is still scripted and so is Spore. Valve claimed HL2 was unscripted

What your describeing seems perfectly possible, although a game that dynamic with that level of A.I would be plaugued with problems in developement.

 

[blakjedi]

I guess the more appropriate description would be "Lives." Where NPC have real lives that the developer gives you an opportunity to participate in for a short time. When lives cros they create "non-scripted" opportunities for advancement or conversely death. If my character Jon Paul crosses the road at 3:30 on Tuesday afternoon while Mary Sue is rushing to pick up her kids I get hit. A minute before or a minute after, no accident. Anybody could get hit not just me.

The fact that MS has kids is scripted, but not the fact the she left late, got into traffic or had an accident. Her chances of hitting someone are calculable vice the amount of players actively within her "perturbable corner" of the game world who have may have an interest in crossing the road at that time.

I guess modeling physical phenomena is easier than AI...

 

[zifnab]

I mean where there is no real script - just consequences and AI for those consequences.

A lot of work has been done in this respect and you are probably thinking of something like control theory which involves adaptation based on consequences of an action. Unless enemy AI learned from scratch though you would need some degree of scripting. And having said that, you would naturally always need to code input/output possibilities in the world - so for example code input like vision, hearing, and touch and output possibilities like movement and speech. Computational expenses aside, there are a number of methodologies you could use for self-learning AI such as neural networks or finite state models with these input/outputs in mind.

The difficulty I imagine would be finding a suitable difficulty level for the user. In an fps for example, the AI may have learned that hiding and shooting from behind walls is the best way to go. The player enters a room with 10 enemies, none of them venture out, but carefully and strategically shoot that person to pieces. The computer typically outnumbers the player greatly so it has to do stupid things or there is no game – assuming you wish to structure games as they are today (with lots of enemies and bosses). I think this kind of AI is definitely the way to go, but getting intelligent and variable enemies to suit player preferences will no doubt be a fine balancing act.

 

[hey69]

yes: pong isnt scripted

 

[Danalys]

i think it's better to just have far more scripts. the idea in the first post seems like it could be done with some kind of dynamic objectives. in GTA as it is if you shoot up some ones car they either drive away or get out and then follow the attacking AI. now what if they could just not like your character then follow scripts accordingly. just add more variables to the NPCs this ones drunk or this one is angry, or this one finds you attractive. then their objectives based on that can shift possibly following branching logic, based on the time they have been attempting their objective and other such factors.

 

[pc999]

At some level you have to be able to describe the core interactions, firing a weapon, taking cover, drinking coffee, these would still in some ways be scripts.

The rest is down to approach, a lot of games do not run scripts to make decisions, but their decision making is limited to how well they can describe the situation in the world view of the AI and what actual actions the AI has available (see above).

The Sims for example has no scripts in the sense of if condition X then decide to do Y, it selects actions (the actions themselves are scripted) based on a metric that it attempts to constantly maximise. Other games use this or similar approaches. It's downside is it's both unpredictable and difficult to tune, so designers can't decide that "if the player does this.. I want the AI to do that". This approach also doesn't play well with story, it's difficult to guarantee than an actor will do what the designer wants in all circumstances.

Inst this what happens in games like Fable and Obvilion?

 

[Lazy8s]

AIs without high level scripting are just sims, like a game without overall objectives is just a pure simulation.

 

[Spaceman-Spiff]

Without scripted events, there won't be any storytelling in the game.