Can the Revolution be as successful as the DS?

[Nicked]

Why should Nintendo care about what other companies are doing as long as they are making a profit?

Because if they don't pay attention they'll lose their audience to others. And obviously acquiring new consumers and profits is important for a business.

Their strategy is working with the DS so far, especially in Japan. It's not just the hardware, DS software is dominating in the charts as well.

PS2 software is dominating (over 50% of software sold in 2005 was PS2) actually. Nintendo would be nuts not to want a slice of that.
However they're currently the biggest publisher (by far), but that is no surprise.

 

[StefanS]

Because if they don't pay attention they'll lose their audience to others. And obviously acquiring new consumers and profits is important for a business.

That's why they try to expand their audience by expanding the market-place as a whole. At least that's their strategy according to Reggie Fils-Aime (sp?). It's a risky gamble, however.

 

[Greg_Nearfield]

What if the real reason it's selling well is because it's the first Nintendo handheld with what could be considered good 3D graphics, and has a reasonable price?

What if the reason it's selling well is because it's primary market is children who don't really have a viable alternative in the price range their parents are willing to pay?

What if the reason it's selling so well in Japan is simply because it's goofy/different, and they like goofy/different gaming systems?


What if the sales has nothing at all to do with the dual screen or "unique" games, and has everything to do with the fact that for 20 years Nintendo has absolutely dominated the handheld market and it would be unrealistic to expect them to lose that market in a single year?


I seem to recall the Gamecube easily outselling the Xbox in 2001-2002. Maybe Nintendo's first year DS sales are due to Nintendo fans buying the system early, and after the first couple of years DS sales will drop like a rock, just like the Gamecube did.


Assuming is always fun, but has no basis in reality. If we are going to assume anything, let's assume that it's not wise to judge the long-term popularity of a product that hasn't even been on sale for a full year yet. If we are going to make an assumption, let's play it safe and assume that right now at least, Nintendo fans are buying Nintendo products, and that's why they have good sales.

powerkeg=anti-nintendo fanboi

 

[Teasy]

Gamecube sales compred to GBA/DS sales should demonstrate quite well that handhelds sales do not translate into console sales. The console has to make it on it's own merits, it cannot ride the coat tails of other products.

GBA never had to compete with a Playstation handheld so there can be no comparison between how well GBA did and how well GC did against PS2.

DS is competing against the PSP and winning. Revolution is taking a very similar path to DS and PS3 a very similar path to PSP. So I can certainly see the point of this thread, though its hardly conclusive, we'll have to wait and see.

If we are going to assume anything, let's assume that it's not wise to judge the long-term popularity of a product that hasn't even been on sale for a full year yet.

DS has been on sale for over a year in Japan and the US.

If we are going to make an assumption, let's play it safe and assume that right now at least, Nintendo fans are buying Nintendo products, and that's why they have good sales.

You're saying that DS is only selling well because Nintendo fans are buying it up, yet Sony don't have enough fans to sell as many PSP's?

 

[Teasy]

Another point I'll raise is how much is software price promoting DS, and how will that affect Nintendo's takings? Games are cheaper than PSP. If cheap games is a major selling point, and that's needed for Rev to do well, even if Nintendo improve their position in console sales they could do less well in the earnings department.

DS games are cheaper then PSP games because developing the average DS game costs far less then developing the average PSP game (apparently DS is even cheaper to dev for then GBA). The same will be true for Revolution.

As far as time is concerned is not the PSP doing close to as good as the DS worldwide? So if the DS will help the Revolution to put Nintendo into greatness, what will the PSP do for the PS3?

I suppose the answer to that (using that logic) would be that PS3 will sell almost as well as Revolution

PS2 software is dominating (over 50% of software sold in 2005 was PS2) actually. Nintendo would be nuts not to want a slice of that.
However they're currently the biggest publisher (by far), but that is no surprise.

PS2 was dominating the software charts in Japan, but DS is dominating now and has been for some time.

 

[bigfurb]

You're saying that DS is only selling well because Nintendo fans are buying it up, yet Sony don't have enough fans to sell as many PSP's?

Nintendo fans have been buying nintendo handhelds for nearly 2 decades now. When you think handheld system, you think nintendo and their gameboy line. Now while they may like to call DS their 3rd pillar and claim it as seperate from the gameboy, i'm willing to bet that most consumers just consider it the next gameboy. And lets not kid ourselves, nintendo knows that to. It's probably one of the reasons they made the DS backwardly compatible with GBA games. It's not surprising that DS is selling very well, nintendo handhelds always do. What should be surprising, considering nintendos history of dominance in that market, is the success sony has had with the psp thus far. Has their ever been a handheld that has competed this well against a nintendo handheld?

So no, i don't think that nintendo doing well with the DS gives any indication of how revolution will do. Two completely different markets. But if you're gonna use that line of reasoning, shouldn't the fact that sony has been able to present this much of a challenge to nintendo, in a market nintendo has dominated so thoroughly, bode well for sony and the ps3. After all, it shows that the playstation brand has become so popular now that they're even capable of challenging nintendo in the handheld market on their very first go around.

 

[pixelbox]

http://revolution.ign.com/articles/670/670513p1.html
Just in case there's people that still don't know what the rev's controller can do.

Now Based on that article, Rev look to be confusing and complicated to hookup and use. Not only will you have to set the sensors up correctly for it to work but there's just too many parts to go with the controller. If they want "non-gamers" to play their console, things would have to be simpler. Ds is simple to work with without any extra pieces and allowed new types of "non-games" non-gamers could play. They played out simpler than any other handheld device and that was key. As i said before, DS suceeds because it has great handheld games, meaning simple "on the go" games that could be played in a small amount of time. All and all, i believe Rev will not go out to do what it's set out to do but usher in idea's to competitors which they in return will refine the idea better than nintendo and cash in. Nintendo in my book screwed themselves by bring out these half-ideas for others to fix and use.

 

[mckmas8808]

DS is competing against the PSP and winning. Revolution is taking a very similar path to DS and PS3 a very similar path to PSP. So I can certainly see the point of this thread, though its hardly conclusive, we'll have to wait and see.

Teasy those post were funny, but you know there's more to it than just that. First of all the PSP and DS didn't actually come out at the sametime across the world. If you take the time advantage that the DS had I think the PSP is doing just as job as the DS. So no I don't think the DS is winning persay. I say it's even.

And did you honestly think that the PSP would be selling extremely more than the DS and take all of Nintendo's pull in the handheld market in one year versus 15 years of Nintendo dominace?

 

[pixelbox]

Nintendo fans have been buying nintendo handhelds for nearly 2 decades now. When you think handheld system, you think nintendo and their gameboy line. Now while they may like to call DS their 3rd pillar and claim it as seperate from the gameboy, i'm willing to bet that most consumers just consider it the next gameboy. And lets not kid ourselves, nintendo knows that to. It's probably one of the reasons they made the DS backwardly compatible with GBA games. It's not surprising that DS is selling very well, nintendo handhelds always do. What should be surprising, considering nintendos history of dominance in that market, is the success sony has had with the psp thus far. Has their ever been a handheld that has competed this well against a nintendo handheld?

So no, i don't think that nintendo doing well with the DS gives any indication of how revolution will do. Two completely different markets. But if you're gonna use that line of reasoning, shouldn't the fact that sony has been able to present this much of a challenge to nintendo, in a market nintendo has dominated so thoroughly, bode well for sony and the ps3. After all, it shows that the playstation brand has become so popular now that they're even capable of challenging nintendo in the handheld market on their very first go around.

A great post. Very insightful, you mention things i never considered

 

[crystalcube]

DS and Rev. are two different market segments , although there is overlap, but performance of DS does not reflect how Rev. will perform.

 

[mckmas8808]

A great post. Very insightful, you mention things i never considered

My question is why haven't you thought about that stuff. It's so freaking obvious that everybody should understand bigfurb's point. Yet people like Teasy (not trying to pick on you) say things like the DS is winning, while not taking into context that this is Sony's first shot in the handheld market.

If I were Nintendo I wouldn't be scared of the PSP, but I would be very concerned.

 

[Branduil]

Why should they be "very" concerned. I can understand being a little concerned, but very? The DS is outselling the PSP hardware-wise, but more importantly it's outselling it by a wide margin software-wise. It seems a lot of people are buying the PSP more for the media capabilities than just for games. Maybe that's what Sony wants, but it could be a problem for developers if the sales don't pick up.

 

[Nicked]

PS2 was dominating the software charts in Japan, but DS is dominating now and has been for some time.

It has had some major hits at the top, but PS2 had...6x as many games released?
DS captured a little over 20% of the software sales in 2005, fwiw (followed by GBA, PSP, GC, X360 and Xbox...).

Why should they be "very" concerned. I can understand being a little concerned, but very? The DS is outselling the PSP hardware-wise, but more importantly it's outselling it by a wide margin software-wise.

PSP software is consistently beating DS in western markets and hardware sales are equal (in a shorter timeframe too, PSP 3.6M this year in the US, DS 2.4M).
Third-parties are having a hard time selling anything on the DS in the west. PSP is just getting more and more popular. Nintendo have to be concerned, handhelds (along with Pokemon stuff) are their primary source of income.

 

[mckmas8808]

Why should they be "very" concerned. I can understand being a little concerned, but very? The DS is outselling the PSP hardware-wise, but more importantly it's outselling it by a wide margin software-wise. It seems a lot of people are buying the PSP more for the media capabilities than just for games. Maybe that's what Sony wants, but it could be a problem for developers if the sales don't pick up.

My fault Branduil I did mean a little concerned. I shouldn't have said "very". But in the western markets software sales are doing better on the PSP than the DS. But I think it's good for Nintendo to be concerned. It means they will probably put out a better product had the PSP not done so well.

 

[pc999]

It has had some major hits at the top, but PS2 had...6x as many games released?
DS captured a little over 20% of the software sales in 2005, fwiw (followed by GBA, PSP, GC, X360 and Xbox...).

Meybe it is because PS2 is out about 5x more years than DS and already sold 20x more consoles, anyway seing the top made by a lot of DS games is a good indicator that DS is doing well, anyway it is almost only top games that can make proffit and name.

PSP software is consistently beating DS in western markets and hardware sales are equal (in a shorter timeframe too, PSP 3.6M this year in the US, DS 2.4M).
Third-parties are having a hard time selling anything on the DS in the west. PSP is just getting more and more popular. Nintendo have to be concerned, handhelds (along with Pokemon stuff) are their primary source of income.

Can you give me a link, I recall thinghs diferentelly...

 

[Nicked]

Meybe it is because PS2 is out about 5x more years than DS and already sold 20x more consoles, anyway seing the top made by a lot of DS games is a good indicator that DS is doing well, anyway it is almost only top games that can make proffit and name.

Except its still 80% Nintendo games being bought.

Can you give me a link, I recall thinghs diferentelly...

I can't find all the NPD data, but heres some through to November:
DS:

Super Mario 64 DS           | 1,192,275
WarioWare: Touched!         |   348,817
Spider-Man: The Movie 2     |   333,422
Nintendogs: Dachshund       |   311,494
Nintendogs: Labrador        |   273,630
Nintendogs: Chihuahua       |   250,326
Asphalt: Urban GT           |   224,288
Mario Kart DS               |   222,408
Yoshi Touch & Go            |   215,249
Kirby: Canvas Curse         |   197,331
Madden NFL 2005             |   186,809
The Urbz: Sims in City      |   186,608
Pokemon Dash                |   136,518
Advance Wars: Dual Strike   |   133,372
SW Episode III: Sith        |   122,815
Castlevania Dawn of Sorrow  |   101,760
Ridge Racer DS              |   100,278
Robots                      |    89,995
Rayman DS                   |    83,588
Madagascar                  |    78,054
Feel the Magic: XY/XX       |    76,352
GoldenEye: Rogue Agent      |    71,133
Meteos                      |    70,492
Need Speed: Underground 2   |    67,501
Tiger Woods PGA 2005        |    66,879
Yu-Gi-Oh Nightmare          |    63,697
Ping Pals                   |    58,190
Mr. Driller: DS             |    52,375
Zoo Keeper                  |    47,270
Zoo Tycoon                  |    45,025
Pac Pix                     |    44,765
Bomberman                   |    42,721
Retro Atari                 |    42,561
Madden NFL 06               |    35,557
Sprung                      |    32,928
The Sims 2                  |    32,840
Trauma Center               |    32,506
T. Clancys Chaos Theory     |    31,113
Lost in Blue                |    30,567
Polarium                    |    30,296
World Champ Poker DS        |    29,395
Ultimate Spiderman          |    27,144
Harry Potter Goblet of Fire |    25,442
Lunar Dragon Song           |    25,193
Metroid Prime Pinball       |    24,256
Nanostray                   |    19,637
Sonic Rush                  |    19,224
Spyro Shadow Legacy         |    19,014
Trace Memory                |    17,193
Puyo Pop Fever              |    17,128
Tak 3                       |    15,853
Pac n Roll                  |    15,591
Phoenix Wright              |    15,335
Spongbob Yellow Avenger     |    13,852
Tony Hawk American Sk8land  |    10,541
Marvel Nemesis              |    10,240
Mega Man Battle 5           |    10,031
FIFA Soccer 06              |     9,840
Shrek Superslam             |     9,585
Snood 2 On Vacation         |     8,643
Incredibles 2               |     8,618
Chronicles of Narnia        |     8,484
DBZ Supersonic Warrior 2    |     8,224
Frogger: Helmet Chaos       |     7,930
Need Speed Most Wanted      |     7,112
Kim Possible                |     6,004
Scooby-Doo Unmasked         |     4,716
Whack A Mole                |     4,584
TMNT 3 Mutant Nightmare     |     2,890
Sea World                   |     2,532
Dig Dug DS                  |     2,456
King Kong                   |     1,681
Space Invaders Revolution   |     1,542
ATV Quad Frenzy             |       850
Texas Hold 'Em Poker        |       659
Sega Casino                 |       593
Real Time Conflict Shogun   |       560
Snow Board Kids             |       260
Ford Racing 3               |       143
                            |
DS November Total           | 1,004,206
DS Total                    | 6,176,780

PSP:

Need Speed: UND Rivals        |   380,682
GTA: Liberty City Stories     |   366,581
Untold Legends: BTHRHD        |   344,903
Twisted Metal: Head On        |   344,553
Wipeout Pure                  |   239,286
Ridge Racer                   |   237,859
Metal Gear Acid               |   230,067
Midnight Club 3: Dub Edition  |   223,471
T.Hawk Underground 2 Remix    |   220,458
Madden NFL 06                 |   207,689
Lumines                       |   207,671
Ape Escape: On Loose          |   180,048
Tiger Woods PGA Tour          |   156,906
NBA                           |   156,860
Coded Arms                    |   155,156
NFL Street 2: Unleashed       |   152,040
ATV Off Road: Blazin          |   147,203
Spider-Man: The Movie 2       |   142,883
MLB                           |   141,986
Hot Shots Golf: Open          |   139,100
MVP Baseball                  |   135,077
Dynasty Warriors              |   126,531
NBA Street Showdown           |   117,756
Star Wars Battlefront II      |   106,063
SOCOM Fireteam Bravo          |    98,208
Darkstalkers Chronicle: Chaos |    98,055
Burnout Legends               |    96,901
A. Maclean's Mercury          |    92,307
FIFA Soccer                   |    81,910
Dead To Rights: Reckoning     |    79,393
Namco Museum Battle Col       |    77,178
Rengoku: Purgatory            |    65,356
Death Jr                      |    64,574
NBA Live 06                   |    61,712
World Tour Soccer             |    58,209
Gretzky NHL                   |    58,207
World Series of Poker         |    54,137
Marvel Nemesis                |    44,698
X-Men Legends 2               |    41,892
Need Speen Most Wanted        |    38,870
Medievil Resurrection         |    35,025
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 06       |    31,457
Virtua Tennis                 |    28,311
SSX On Tour                   |    27,842
Smart Bomb                    |    20,944
NBA 06                        |    19,997
FIFA Soccer 06                |    19,427
Harry Potter Goblet of Fire   |    18,059
Frogger: Helmet Chaos         |    16,864
Gripshift                     |    14,831
Gretzky NHL 06                |    13,679
Infected                      |    11,905
Lord of the Rings Tactics     |    11,361
The Con                       |    11,057
Legend of Heroes Vermillion   |     9,002
Kingdom of Paradise           |     8,315
Frantix                       |     8,157
Crash Tag Team Racing         |     7,686
Ghost in the Shell            |     6,383
The Hustle: Detroit Streets   |     4,802
Dynasty Warriors Premium      |     2,004
                              |
PSP November Total            | 1,046,840
PSP Total                     | 6,299,544

Things to note:
Add 1M to DS software in bundles maybe. But subtract way more that was sold before the PSP was out.
Over 1/2 of DS software sold is from Nintendo (far more inc. Bundles).

Can't find all the other region *figures* but Chart Track and GFK are amongst some trackers which attest to the poor software sales of the DS, outside of bundles (Nintendogs, Mario Kart).

 

[Powderkeg]

GBA never had to compete with a Playstation handheld so there can be no comparison between how well GBA did and how well GC did against PS2.

Riiiiigggghtttt.

You are still trying to extend one market to another. The original Gameboy outsold everything by a huge margin, but the N64 was still outsold by the Playstation by more than 3:1.

The GBA outsold everything by a huge margin, but the Gamecube is still in last place.

The DS can outsell everything by a huge margin, but you still have absolutely no connection to the console market.

DS is competing against the PSP and winning. Revolution is taking a very similar path to DS and PS3 a very similar path to PSP. So I can certainly see the point of this thread, though its hardly conclusive, we'll have to wait and see.

I've seen no connection between the handheld market and console market whatsoever. Over the past 20 years Nintendo has ruled handhelds and steadily lost marketshare and customers in the console market.

Trying to draw a connection between the two requires ignoring the past 20 years of gaming history. There isn't the slightest bit of evidence that any connection exists at all.

You're saying that DS is only selling well because Nintendo fans are buying it up, yet Sony don't have enough fans to sell as many PSP's?

How many Sony handheld fans were there 3 years ago?

ZERO?

Besides, if it's simply a matter of Sony having more fans, then shouldn't the PSP be outselling the DS by about a 5:1 margin, just like the PS2 did the GCN?

 

[Li Mu Bai]

Why all the sudden concern over Nintendo DS's 1st party handheld developed or published titles vs. those of its 3rd party sales? The GB/GBC, GBA/SP, & DS are all following exactly the same paths. Credit to CVXFreak at GAF:

GBA NPD LTD (as of Dec)=

Super Mario Advance 2 2,461,243
Pokemon Ruby Version 2,457,067
Pokemon Sapphire Version 2,206,915
Super Mario Advance 2,076,832
Mario Kart: Super Circuit 2,094,671
Super Mario Bros 3: Super Mario Advance 4 2,070,569
Pokemon Emerald Version 1,710,954
Pokemon FireRed Version 1,641,825
The Legend Of Zelda: A Link To Past 1,396,397
Pokemon LeafGreen Version 1,432,617
Yoshi's Island: Super Mario Advance 3 1,152,199
Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga 999,741
Kirby: Nightmare In Dreamland 972,652
Donkey Kong Country 962,728
Metroid Fusion 943,023
Golden Sun 743,361
Wario Land 4 719,100
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance 653,919
The Legend Of Zelda: The Minish Cap 653,029
Donkey Kong Country 2 619,407
Kirby And The Amazing Mirror 601,273
Classic Nes Series: Super Mario Bros. 551,002
Mario Vs. Donkey Kong 542,986
Pokemon Pinball: Ruby & Sapphire 540,646
Golden Sun 2: The Lost Age 483,043
Metroid Zero Mission 473,547
Final Fantasy I & II: Dawn Of Souls 465,188
Advance Wars 401,221
Fire Emblem 392,183
Mario Pinball Land 379,194
Advance Wars 2: Black Hole Rising 370,787
Classic Nes Series: The Legend Of Zelda 368,696
Game & Watch Gallery 4 347,544
Mario Party Advance 339,891
Classic Nes Series: Donkey Kong 319,942
Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones 285,844
F-Zero Maximum Velocity 274,737
Classic Nes Series: Zelda II: Adventure Of Link 269,446
Warioware Inc Mega Micro Game$ 250,812
Sword Of Mana 243,116
Classic Nes Series: Dr. Mario 244,689
Mario Golf Advance Tour 240,809
Donkey Kong Country 3 239,701
Hamtaro: Ham Ham Heartbreak 205,477
Classic Nes Series: Pac-Man 199,115
Pokemon: Johto Photo Finish (Vol. 1) 191,957
Classic Nes Series: Metroid 180,347
Pokemon: For Ho-Oh The Bells Toll (Vol 2) 157,168
Wario Ware Twisted! 153,545
Classic Nes Series: Castlevania 129,405
Disney's Magical Quest 125,129
Yoshi Topsy-Turvy 114,946
Hamtaro: Ham-Ham Games 109,253
Final Fantasy IV Advance 107,264
Donkey Kong: King of Swing 96,191
Pokemon: I Choose You! 90,205
Pokemon: Beach Blank-Out Blastoise 75,834
Classic Nes Series: Ice Climber 75,665
Classic Nes Series: Excitebike 73,217
Classic Nes Series: Bomberman 71,270
Classic Nes Series: Xevious 59,306
F-Zero: GP Legend 55,748
Dr. Mario & Puzzle League 40,488
Pocket Dogs 2,614

DS

Super Mario 64 DS 1,286,854
Mario Kart DS 653,697
Nintendogs: Dachshund 556,342 (/1,465,408)
Nintendogs: Labrador 474,540 (/1,465,408)
Nintendogs: Chihuahua 434,526 (/1,465,408)
WarioWare: Touched! 377,080
Mario & Luigi 2: Partners in Time 260,779
Animal Crossing Wild World 254,354 (debut)
Kirby: Canvas Curse 237,370
Yoshi's Touch & Go 236,398
Advance Wars: Dual Strike 170,615
Pokemon Dash 153,980
Meteos 82,998
Metroid Prime Pinball 58,258
Polarium 37,329

Shock & awe! You mean to tell me that Nintendo is not more software-centric than Sony? Did this stop them from garnering massive 3rd party support? No. Many a 3rd person GBA game put up extremely impressive sales numbers & profits ensuring that support. The PSP is primarily a 3rd party supported platform, as is its console counterpart. The same can be said of Nintendo's home consoles as well, (regarding in-house deved. software) as it has always been their "primary focus much like Sega when they were still in the hw market. You can see their reasons for such a profitable business model, as they enjoy both hw, numerous internally developed sw, & publishing profits.

But the DS's massive japanese hw penetration will have major repercussions with the eastern developers to say the least. (look at Square-Enix's support even now for instance) Advantages like dev. kits being cheaper than even those of the GBA, PSP, etc. Considerably reduced allocation of R&D budgets & manpower, (vs. those of the PSP) titles that can sell very profitably in a single region or perhaps two & not necessarily have to produce phenomenal sales numbers. At E3 expect to see a portfolio of upcoming titles & developer support that will be significantly higher than those for the PSP. Next-gen will be in full swing & developers will definitely be monitoring their overall R&D. (for both consoles & handhelds alike)

 

[Nicked]

Did this stop them from garnering massive 3rd party support?

Err. Better third party sales, lower media costs and higher game prices = win for third parties on PSP.
Higher dev costs? Probably (a win for gamers), but much higher sales.

But the DS's massive japanese hw penetration will have major repercussions with the eastern developers to say the least. (look at Square-Enix's support even now for instance)

Whats with this. The DS is selling only slightly over par with the GBA sales in a similar timeframe. You Nintendo fans never want to look at the facts.

(look at Square-Enix's support even now for instance)

The support that was announced when the DS was floundering in Japan is proof that its having an effect on support?
Nice theory.

At E3 expect to see a portfolio of upcoming titles & developer support that will be significantly higher than those for the PSP

Really? Because the DS selling like crap in NA in 2005 is going to reinforce developer faith in the system? Or will those publishers dislike the higher profits to be made on PSP?

 

[Li Mu Bai]

Let us intelligently analyze what was just said here, if such a feat can be accomplished. Let's look at comprehensive software & hardware to obtain a clearer picture.

Err. Better third party sales, lower media costs and higher game prices = win for third parties on PSP.
Higher dev costs? Probably (a win for gamers), but much higher sales.

Really? I could've sworn I said that the PSP was primarily supported by 3rd party sales, whereas Nintendo isn't nearly as reliant upon them. But due to the DS's expanding popularity fueled by its software, (demand exceeds availability in jpn) its lower developer monetary R&D associated costs, (dev kit, manpower & media inclusive) = a win for 3rd parties on the DS because of the higher profit margin allowed upon less actual software sales. Its sw profit potential grows exponentially if your title sells beyond or reaches let's say, 100k. Though profitiability can be reached upon even less.

How does higher dev costs equate to a win for gamers exactly? This directly correlates to the higher game prices that they must charge the consumer, & high sales are a necessity to see a profit over investment which is far from guaranteed on either platform. But the financial risk on the DS is significantly reduced due to the factors listed above.

Whats with this. The DS is selling only slightly over par with the GBA sales in a similar timeframe. You Nintendo fans never want to look at the facts.

The GBA was never sold out in any region, (with Nintendo issuing a formal apology for shortages) & certainly didn't produce so quickly close to 10 seperate million sellers on its platform within a 14 month lifetime period since launch within any single region. (JPN) Yes, whatever I have listed here will eclipse platinum status next week, or within the remaining qtr.

Media Create DS title sales as of 1/15
Mario 64~ 814,108 (as of 12/27 Famitsu)
Warioware Touched~ 855,5565 (as of 12/27 Famitsu)
Nintendogs~ 1,007,214
Brain Training~ 1,321,504
Gentle Brain Excercises~ 1,023,979
Tamagotchi~ 870,921
Pokemon Dungeon Blue~ 629,923
Mario Kart~ 990,369
Animal Crossing~ 1,565,251
Brain training 2~ 845,885

Some sources have Warioware, SM64, & MKDS already at over a million sold. When Nintendo can ramp up DS production again in late Jan./early Feb. & the months to follow, its all but guaranteed. I don't have to be a DS, nor must I be a Nintendo fan to recognize that this is phenomenal, & I said more eastern developers are sure to be taking notice & pledge even further support. You do realize that the japanese market was shrinking, with less than 5 million sellers in all of '04 on the PS2's dominant platform.

The support that was announced when the DS was floundering in Japan is proof that its having an effect on support?
Nice theory

"Floundering?" You're referring to the period before April when DS sales had dropped as low as 20k correct? (which also happened to the PSP btw) Look at it's sales numbers since April, the agreements & announcements with Square-Enix were reached before this took place regardless. FFIII, Children of Mana, & FF:CC DS will cause strong market spikes (both in JPN & abroad) along with Slime Mori Mori continuing to sell well.

Really? Because the DS selling like crap in NA in 2005 is going to reinforce developer faith in the system? Or will those publishers dislike the higher profits to be made on PSP?

Are December's hw numbers any indication of the DS selling like crap? In addition to the fact that Nintendo has confirmed that 13 million DSes sold ww vs. the [/B]9 million[/B] for the PSP this year, will that too scare away the publishers I wonder?

PSP: 1,120,000
NDS: 1,070,000

This is not a DS vs. PSP thread, just looking at the raw data & putting the economics of game development into perspective which must be taken into account. The PSP is indeed a technical marvel, with a multitude of built in functionality. (which may have hurt it in hindsight) But software is what ultimately moves systems, MKDS outselling GTA PSP? 4 million Nintendogs sold ww & rising? I never would've believed it initially.