Can someone explain to me Bitcoins? [2013]

[iroboto]

That's just inefficient complicated solution to imagined problem for people who wear tinfoil hats or want to purchase illegal stuff/circumvent taxes. Or maybe I'm just naïve and live in a soft bubble of trust in stable society.

realistically speaking, tax evasion and purchasing things illegally, and money laundering have all been around and significantly well established with real currency well before cryptocurrency came along.
The only difference between virtual currency and non virtual currency is that with non-virtual currency, they are doing it in plain sight. With nothing more than a slip on the wrist fines and constant lobbying to change laws so that they can get away with these things.

Everything in real currency is leveraged well beyond what is actually available. The entire financial system has all sorts of mechanisms built in place that literally is just another form of legalized gambling. Nothing at all really makes sense.

Where cyptocurrency is basic, it is also immutable in how it functions. There is at least stability in that.

 

[manux]

Where cyptocurrency is basic, it is also immutable in how it functions. There is at least stability in that.

I think I'm just dumb or old fashioned or something. I don't see any inherent value in something like bitcoin. It's a giant ponzi/pyramid scheme. The value really is just in how much people are willing to pay for it. It could be infinitely valuable or 0 in an instant. Too risky for my taste.

 

[pcchen]

That's just inefficient complicated solution to imagined problem for people who wear tinfoil hats or want to purchase illegal stuff/circumvent taxes. Or maybe I'm just naïve and live in a soft bubble of trust in stable society.

I wouldn't go that far, but the nearest comparison I can think of is Tor. Tor is also very inefficient, but its original purpose is for people under repressive governments to be able to contact outside world safely. Of course, the side effect is that Tor is also very useful for criminals to hide their communications, but probably worth it.
It's probably not coincidental that bitcoins are more popular in economically less stable countries, such as Zimbabwe.

 

[iroboto]

I think I'm just dumb or old fashioned or something. I don't see any inherent value in something like bitcoin. It's a giant ponzi/pyramid scheme. The value really is just in how much people are willing to pay for it. It could be infinitely valuable or 0 in an instant. Too risky for my taste.

No not dumb. It's a sign that the economy in your country works for you. Everything about it works (for you), so there's no need for a replacement.
if your dollar was suddenly made useless by rapid inflation, most people would do something about it. Buy diamonds, gold, etc. Things that aren't as volatile. You may not have access to those things and are riskier assets to hold if you're expecting to be raided, so if you want a hidden wallet that can hold your asset value in the face of your own currency collapsing on its own weight then the next best thing is...

I remember an old story told to me that during WW2 era many people who were fleeing from the war brought nothing with them except for diamonds and gold in their pockets.

 

[manux]

No not dumb. It's a sign that the economy in your country works for you. Everything about it works (for you), so there's no need for a replacement.
if your dollar was suddenly made useless by rapid inflation, most people would do something about it. Buy diamonds, gold, etc. Things that aren't as volatile. You may not have access to those things and are riskier assets to hold if you're expecting to be raided, so if you want a hidden wallet that can hold your asset value in the face of your own currency collapsing on its own weight then the next best thing is...

I am indeed lucky being in stable environment. I also have bank accounts in three different countries each with their own currency so I have some freedom on choosing what currency I hold. I also have diversified my investments so they are not in any one specific sector like tech or one area like usa.

 

[iroboto]

I am indeed lucky being in stable environment. I also have bank accounts in three different countries each with their own currency so I have some freedom on choosing what currency I hold. I also have diversified my investments so they are not in any one specific sector like tech or one area like usa.

I think most of us are like this as well. You'd have to look for a specific reason to get into cryptocurrency, and something would have to drive you there as though the current system isn't working for you for some reason.

 

[Davros]

Note to self :
Send begging letters to manux as he's really, really rich....

 

[manux]

Note to self :
Send begging letters to manux as he's really, really rich....

Not really That rich, I just have travelled around and kept some assets for their usefulness. Diversification is pretty easy via etf's even with small amount of money. I could be rich if I had gone all in to tesla, bitcoin or I could be very, very poor. I'm risk averse, I want steady predictable yields. And even that predictable thing doesn't exist in reality. Everything has at least some risk.

But hey, I need fishing buddy! Come fish, I'll bring bait and equipment.

 

[Daozang]

I think most of us are like this as well. You'd have to look for a specific reason to get into cryptocurrency, and something would have to drive you there as though the current system isn't working for you for some reason.

If the system is working for someone, they will invest in relatively safe things like ETFs.
If it does not on the other hand, they stand a better chance in investing in more volatile and risky assets.
I have no stake in this, although I do own a few cryptocurrencies worth less than 400 euros...
In my part of the world, and with my salary, I stand more chances with crypto, than with conventional investments.
Now because of the pandemic, the lockdown and the fact that I work from home, I managed to raise a good amount of emergency cash in my savings account, so I hope I can do some safe investing in the future.
But either way I put it, it won't be enough for me to comfortably retire at 60 something unless I take a few risks.
I'm not really ready to take such risks, but I do feel for the people that do.

 

[Davros]

I'll bring bait and equipment.

I'll bring the dynamite

 

[zed]

Thank god its only something "you" believe. I'm not a fan of bitcoin but that sentence clearly tells me crypto is like a mystifying art to the common people. Like Which-craft.

Mate its a cult
https://spectator.com.au/2021/02/the-cult-of-cryptocurrency/
https://adamcaudill.com/2018/06/21/bitcoin-is-a-cult/
https://thebaffler.com/salvos/zealots-of-the-blockchain-golumbia
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...-gamestop-gme-are-more-cults-than-investments

Mate if you've even done a bit more than cursory research on cults and look into crypto or any other pyramid scheme you will see they share so much in common even the language 'have faith' 'this is good for' 'hodl' 'trust in the plan'
We all remember this recent cryptocurrency
https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-50435014

Note: Like Ive said before Im all for cryptocurrencies, fuck banks etc. But the current implementations are just fucking terrible.
PS: What happens to all these warehouse full of millions of mining machines once they become not worthwhile to be used to mine? Can they be used for other things or are they too inflexible

 

[Daozang]

Mate its a cult
https://spectator.com.au/2021/02/the-cult-of-cryptocurrency/
https://adamcaudill.com/2018/06/21/bitcoin-is-a-cult/
https://thebaffler.com/salvos/zealots-of-the-blockchain-golumbia
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...-gamestop-gme-are-more-cults-than-investments

Mate if you've even done a bit more than cursory research on cults and look into crypto or any other pyramid scheme you will see they share so much in common even the language 'have faith' 'this is good for' 'hodl' 'trust in the plan'
We all remember this recent cryptocurrency
https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-50435014

Note: Like Ive said before Im all for cryptocurrencies, fuck banks etc. But the current implementations are just fucking terrible.
PS: What happens to all these warehouse full of millions of mining machines once they become not worthwhile to be used to mine? Can they be used for other things or are they too inflexible

It is as much a cult, as the current economic system.
Faith is the cornerstone of the markets.
The thing is, the current cult has reached mass adoption, invisible hands and all.

 

[Bludd]

the end is coming
https://www.digitalenergyenvironment.org/resources/blockchain/inventory/watercoin/

and before you say "but its for clean water initiatives" im just saying that i dread the future where water is being speculated on

i want to buy water futures, oh no its not going to rain even though they said better SHORT water and SHORT meteorologists

 

[Putas]

It is as much a cult, as the current economic system.
Faith is the cornerstone of the markets.
The thing is, the current cult has reached mass adoption, invisible hands and all.

I don't see it. So much of market activity is based on fundamental analysis rather than faith.

 

[manux]

I'll bring the dynamite

It's very illegal and not that useful to use explosives for fishing here. I knew your were trouble, trouble, trouble!

 

[zed]

the end is coming
https://www.digitalenergyenvironment.org/resources/blockchain/inventory/watercoin/

and before you say "but its for clean water initiatives" im just saying that i dread the future where water is being speculated on

i want to buy water futures, oh no its not going to rain even though they said better SHORT water and SHORT meteorologists

bugger it, If only I didnt spend my wad on trumpcoins and fapcoins (Alfred P sloan foundation, those dudes I hear mentioned in every radiolab episode?, sheesh)
Someone has to pay for the upcoming waterwars

Quick I should trademark 'Aircoin'

 

[dskneo]

I don't see it. So much of market activity is based on fundamental analysis rather than faith.

Sorry to tell but "fundamental analysis" is not scientific. Its as real as astrology. Its the mass belief those "fundamentals" are true, that causes the same patterns to repeat themselves time and time again.

These fundamentals are based on anything that coincided with the price going up or down for the past hundreds of years. Mathematicians saw math laws. Some saw it coincide with chinese years. Other people saw other stupid stuff. Someone made them up, but now I see it on graphs even though its fake. A few million other people also see it. So its the "mass hysteria" of believing in them that will make the price swing. Faith.

 

[manux]

I think there is confusion here. Technical analysis is looking at the graphs. Fundamentals are things like debt versus capital, profit versus loss etc(simplified).

 

[Putas]

These fundamentals are based on anything that coincided with the price going up or down for the past hundreds of years. Mathematicians saw math laws. Some saw it coincide with chinese years. Other people saw other stupid stuff. Someone made them up, but now I see it on graphs even though its fake. A few million other people also see it. So its the "mass hysteria" of believing in them that will make the price swing. Faith.

Swing for a while, then comes reality check. Can you show me otherwise or do you have nothing but faith?

 

[Daozang]

I don't see it. So much of market activity is based on fundamental analysis rather than faith.

Of course it is.
It is also playing the odds, plus faith.
Fundamental analysis on Apple does not guaranty a successful investment (nothing does), but the odds are good.
Faith on the other hand drives Tesla.
Trust/faith is part of our economy whether we like it or not (personally I don't).