Can someone explain to me Bitcoins? [2013]

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by fehu, Jun 30, 2013.

  1. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
    Legend Regular Subscriber

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2014
    Messages:
    13,032
    Likes Received:
    15,781
    Location:
    The North
    realistically speaking, tax evasion and purchasing things illegally, and money laundering have all been around and significantly well established with real currency well before cryptocurrency came along.
    The only difference between virtual currency and non virtual currency is that with non-virtual currency, they are doing it in plain sight. With nothing more than a slip on the wrist fines and constant lobbying to change laws so that they can get away with these things.

    Everything in real currency is leveraged well beyond what is actually available. The entire financial system has all sorts of mechanisms built in place that literally is just another form of legalized gambling. Nothing at all really makes sense.

    Where cyptocurrency is basic, it is also immutable in how it functions. There is at least stability in that.
     
    Daozang likes this.
  2. manux

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Messages:
    2,798
    Likes Received:
    1,981
    Location:
    Earth
    I think I'm just dumb or old fashioned or something. I don't see any inherent value in something like bitcoin. It's a giant ponzi/pyramid scheme. The value really is just in how much people are willing to pay for it. It could be infinitely valuable or 0 in an instant. Too risky for my taste.
     
  3. pcchen

    pcchen Moderator
    Moderator Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    2,906
    Likes Received:
    409
    Location:
    Taiwan
    I wouldn't go that far, but the nearest comparison I can think of is Tor. Tor is also very inefficient, but its original purpose is for people under repressive governments to be able to contact outside world safely. Of course, the side effect is that Tor is also very useful for criminals to hide their communications, but probably worth it.
    It's probably not coincidental that bitcoins are more popular in economically less stable countries, such as Zimbabwe.
     
    manux likes this.
  4. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
    Legend Regular Subscriber

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2014
    Messages:
    13,032
    Likes Received:
    15,781
    Location:
    The North
    No not dumb. It's a sign that the economy in your country works for you. Everything about it works (for you), so there's no need for a replacement.
    if your dollar was suddenly made useless by rapid inflation, most people would do something about it. Buy diamonds, gold, etc. Things that aren't as volatile. You may not have access to those things and are riskier assets to hold if you're expecting to be raided, so if you want a hidden wallet that can hold your asset value in the face of your own currency collapsing on its own weight then the next best thing is...

    I remember an old story told to me that during WW2 era many people who were fleeing from the war brought nothing with them except for diamonds and gold in their pockets.
     
    Putas and manux like this.
  5. manux

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Messages:
    2,798
    Likes Received:
    1,981
    Location:
    Earth
    I am indeed lucky being in stable environment. I also have bank accounts in three different countries each with their own currency so I have some freedom on choosing what currency I hold. I also have diversified my investments so they are not in any one specific sector like tech or one area like usa.
     
    iroboto likes this.
  6. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
    Legend Regular Subscriber

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2014
    Messages:
    13,032
    Likes Received:
    15,781
    Location:
    The North
    I think most of us are like this as well. You'd have to look for a specific reason to get into cryptocurrency, and something would have to drive you there as though the current system isn't working for you for some reason.
     
  7. Davros

    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2004
    Messages:
    16,758
    Likes Received:
    4,059
    Note to self :
    Send begging letters to manux as he's really, really rich....
     
    manux and iroboto like this.
  8. manux

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Messages:
    2,798
    Likes Received:
    1,981
    Location:
    Earth
    Not really That rich, I just have travelled around and kept some assets for their usefulness. Diversification is pretty easy via etf's even with small amount of money. I could be rich if I had gone all in to tesla, bitcoin or I could be very, very poor. I'm risk averse, I want steady predictable yields. And even that predictable thing doesn't exist in reality. Everything has at least some risk.

    But hey, I need fishing buddy! Come fish, I'll bring bait and equipment.
     
  9. Daozang

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2007
    Messages:
    1,090
    Likes Received:
    412
    Location:
    Athens
    If the system is working for someone, they will invest in relatively safe things like ETFs.
    If it does not on the other hand, they stand a better chance in investing in more volatile and risky assets.
    I have no stake in this, although I do own a few cryptocurrencies worth less than 400 euros...
    In my part of the world, and with my salary, I stand more chances with crypto, than with conventional investments.
    Now because of the pandemic, the lockdown and the fact that I work from home, I managed to raise a good amount of emergency cash in my savings account, so I hope I can do some safe investing in the future.
    But either way I put it, it won't be enough for me to comfortably retire at 60 something unless I take a few risks.
    I'm not really ready to take such risks, but I do feel for the people that do.
     
  10. Davros

    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2004
    Messages:
    16,758
    Likes Received:
    4,059
    I'll bring the dynamite ;)
     
  11. zed

    zed
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,336
    Likes Received:
    1,374
    Mate its a cult
    https://spectator.com.au/2021/02/the-cult-of-cryptocurrency/
    https://adamcaudill.com/2018/06/21/bitcoin-is-a-cult/
    https://thebaffler.com/salvos/zealots-of-the-blockchain-golumbia
    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...-gamestop-gme-are-more-cults-than-investments

    Mate if you've even done a bit more than cursory research on cults and look into crypto or any other pyramid scheme you will see they share so much in common even the language 'have faith' 'this is good for' 'hodl' 'trust in the plan'
    We all remember this recent cryptocurrency
    https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-50435014

    Note: Like Ive said before Im all for cryptocurrencies, fuck banks etc. But the current implementations are just fucking terrible.
    PS: What happens to all these warehouse full of millions of mining machines once they become not worthwhile to be used to mine? Can they be used for other things or are they too inflexible
     
  12. Daozang

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2007
    Messages:
    1,090
    Likes Received:
    412
    Location:
    Athens
    It is as much a cult, as the current economic system.
    Faith is the cornerstone of the markets.
    The thing is, the current cult has reached mass adoption, invisible hands and all.
     
  13. Bludd

    Bludd Experiencing A Significant Gravitas Shortfall
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2003
    Messages:
    3,608
    Likes Received:
    1,218
    Location:
    Funny, It Worked Last Time...
    green.pixel, Putas and Daozang like this.
  14. Putas

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2004
    Messages:
    533
    Likes Received:
    176
    I don't see it. So much of market activity is based on fundamental analysis rather than faith.
     
  15. manux

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Messages:
    2,798
    Likes Received:
    1,981
    Location:
    Earth
    It's very illegal and not that useful to use explosives for fishing here. I knew your were trouble, trouble, trouble!
     
  16. zed

    zed
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,336
    Likes Received:
    1,374
    bugger it, If only I didnt spend my wad on trumpcoins and fapcoins (Alfred P sloan foundation, those dudes I hear mentioned in every radiolab episode?, sheesh)
    Someone has to pay for the upcoming waterwars

    Quick I should trademark 'Aircoin'
     
  17. dskneo

    Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2005
    Messages:
    650
    Likes Received:
    193
    Sorry to tell but "fundamental analysis" is not scientific. Its as real as astrology. Its the mass belief those "fundamentals" are true, that causes the same patterns to repeat themselves time and time again.

    These fundamentals are based on anything that coincided with the price going up or down for the past hundreds of years. Mathematicians saw math laws. Some saw it coincide with chinese years. Other people saw other stupid stuff. Someone made them up, but now I see it on graphs even though its fake. A few million other people also see it. So its the "mass hysteria" of believing in them that will make the price swing. Faith.
     
  18. manux

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Messages:
    2,798
    Likes Received:
    1,981
    Location:
    Earth
    I think there is confusion here. Technical analysis is looking at the graphs. Fundamentals are things like debt versus capital, profit versus loss etc(simplified).
     
    Putas likes this.
  19. Putas

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2004
    Messages:
    533
    Likes Received:
    176
    Swing for a while, then comes reality check. Can you show me otherwise or do you have nothing but faith?
     
  20. Daozang

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2007
    Messages:
    1,090
    Likes Received:
    412
    Location:
    Athens
    Of course it is.
    It is also playing the odds, plus faith.
    Fundamental analysis on Apple does not guaranty a successful investment (nothing does), but the odds are good.
    Faith on the other hand drives Tesla. :p
    Trust/faith is part of our economy whether we like it or not (personally I don't).
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...