Business Approach Comparison Sony PS4 and Microsoft Xbox

[Scott_Arm]

Kinect and Eye won't be replacing controllers any time soon. The idea of driving a car with an imaginary steering wheel was just stupid and not compelling at all. Or pointing your hand at the screen like a gun. For traditional games, you'll see them used to augment control. Rocksmith 2014 is a good example. It seems to have voice control from the stage demo, and that's great because picking up and putting down a controller sucks when you've got a guitar strapped over your shoulder. There's possibilities with biometric feedback, head tracking, additional gesture controls. Eye can track the DS4 controller, so you have some motion control in that. It looks like Kinect may be able to do that a little bit, with unknown accuracy. There was an onscreen demo of someone lifting the controller to raise a shield.

What can be done with a gamepad is pretty much at its end game. You can't keep adding more buttons. There is already a push to simplify controls to make games more intuitive for new gamers. So we get voice and motion controls. That's the only way they can really do new things. The touchpad on the DS4 should be useful for a lot of things as well.

Edit:
You also have smartphone/tablet control. With Xbox One and PS4, I'd find it undesirable to have to switch between a control and a tablet. To me they are more suited to different styles of gameplay than augmenting what we currently have. The commander mode in Battlefield 4 is what I'd consider a good use of the tablet. Using a tablet to manage inventory is not. Wii U got that one right by putting the screen on the controller.

There are just too many logical uses for cameras and microphones for them not to be included in designs for future consoles/gameplay. Obviously Microsoft is banking on that a little more by their inclusion of Kinect as a requirement. I'm interesting in seeing what they do with it.

 

[wco81]

For the additional $100 and the requirement to be connected, K2 better be a finished product, not part of some longer-term evolution.

If they're going to force you to have it, it better be as good as controllers in latency, precision, etc.

If the additional cost leading to higher price causes X1 to lose market share, will there be a K3?

 

[zupallinere]

Exactly.

Seconded. The kinect et al really only come into their own when the game control scheme makes the regular controller superfluous and that really only comes into play with full body gaming. FPS, TPS, most any game these days, all benefit from fast reaction to events on the screen which is something that the regular controller excels at and quite frankly it will stay that way for a long time. Motion capture control might be good for inventory management or for commands that exceed the "button" budget on the handheld controller. The DS4's touchscreen would arguably be a better solution.

I think the Kinect technology could be very useful for all the golfers, who practice all the time and watch videos to improve their mechanics. If Kinect can accurately capture their motion and software could analyze their swings, to detect problems with their grip, the way they rotate or don't rotate their hips, etc.

But again, I'm not sure that kind of kinetic precision is as useful for games.

As a motion capture utility the Kinect will be quite successful once it finds it's niche.

 

[temesgen]

Do I have to put down my keyboard to use a mouse?

Motion control is in its infancy and will mature with time. Motion control will evolve in the same fashion as the controllers we have now except the evolution can happen at a faster pace because capability can be expanded through software development unlike physical controllers where you forced to wait until new hardware is released.

Just because all you see is something akin to a 2600 joystick doesn' t mean something in a DS4 form isn't on its way.

I'm going to borrow your DS4 2600 to make my point - I agree that motion controls have potential but today right now the technology doesn't appear to be ready to replace the traditional controller, supplement it? Perhaps.... Why would I want to replace my DS4 with a 2600 controller?

Most wouldn't, the improvements in Kinect are good and perhaps MS will begin to show compelling gameplay scenarios that require a camera due to the install base, better tech or creativity on the part of the developer. MS has clearly thought thru this and thinks there is enough there to warrant the inclusion in XB1 so lets see what happens.

With that said the burden should be on them, however in the discussion we see many people championing the tech for potential but not being able to point to specifics. That is just wrong headed, MS needs to be able to demonstrate why the inclusion of Kinect justifies a higher price and possibly less power for the GPU. Again I am sure they have done the calculus and have their reasons so lets hear it.

Edit:

FWIW I would have liked to see one of the platform holders announce support for Occulus Rift standard with all games much like the remote play for VITA was presented. That IMO would have been a game changer, that tech makes sense right now today.

 

[wco81]

Or MS thinks Kinect gives them an advantage for non-gaming features, like the TV control.

They apparently think gaming isn't enough, that the console in the age of mobile devices must offer more and Kinect gives them a way to offer a new UX. They can talk about how it will revolutionize gaming but it seems a big part of the inclusion of K2 was for non-gaming features, which they seem to think is at least as important in a "games console."

 

[temesgen]

Or MS thinks Kinect gives them an advantage for non-gaming features, like the TV control.

They apparently think gaming isn't enough, that the console in the age of mobile devices must offer more and Kinect gives them a way to offer a new UX. They can talk about how it will revolutionize gaming but it seems a big part of the inclusion of K2 was for non-gaming features, which they seem to think is at least as important in a "games console."

I think the XB1 is a check box system; someone said we need a device that can do the following and prepared a list. That is also in part how you get the price - someone is comparing to tablets and all the value associated with all the features available out of the box.

 

[expletive]

I would rather Sony wait for cost of production to fall a bit and then stick PS Eye in all future skus of the console. Early adopters are probably the most likely to purchase a PS Eye as a separate purchase especially if it becomes a standard feature in all the future skus.

Otherwise, PS Eye's potential will be stunted as peripheral.

Is there any software for it? I don't recall any titles at E3 leveraging ps-eye, which may be one of the reasons they aren't bundling it.

 

[patsu]

Is there any software for it? I don't recall any titles at E3 leveraging ps-eye, which may be one of the reasons they aren't bundling it.

Only an AR tech demo in E3 as far as I can recall. I vaguely remember a PIP video chat image when they talked about live streaming back in Feb.

For games, if it's worthwhile...
It should be "easy" to add head tracking to DriveClub when they have hit their 60fps target.

They patched Move stuff in later too.

 

[temesgen]

Only an AR tech demo in E3 as far as I can recall. I vaguely remember a PIP video chat image when they talked about live streaming back in Feb.

For games, if it's worthwhile...
It should be "easy" to add head tracking to DriveClub when they have hit their 60fps target.

They patched Move stuff in later too.

I'm overstating a bit but head tracking for 60 bucks or Occulus Rift for a $150? What would you prefer?

 

[patsu]

Dude, you're asking the wrong guy. I've been waiting for an announcement for a PS4 visor.

e.g., In fact, I want a tiny camera mounted outside the visor so that I can see the outside world with GPU post processing too.

 

[dobwal]

Actually, touch is already there and even MS is investing in touch, probably more than they have on Kinect, given that it's key part of W8 and 8.1 and is key to them staying relevant.

Voice is also more likely but not the same VR that's been around 20 years but the NLP stuff, with agents and such.

Except that touch in most current products forces you to give up immediate control in one area to provide control in another.

One of the reason I tend to prefer third person shooters over first person shooters is because FPSes tend to lack a really robust cover mechanic. Both genres usually go with a toggle mechanic between two different stances, which I find limiting in both circumstance.

Motion can provide a finer grain of control of looking around and above cover without exposing unnecessary parts of your avatar while allowing you to maintain total control over aiming, directional and firing.

I see motion control as a way to extend certain functionality without forcing your fingers or the sticks and buttons on the primary controller to perform dual roles.

 

[temesgen]

Dude, you're asking the wrong guy. I've been waiting for an announcement for a PS4 visor.

I wasn't trying to single you out, I'm more or less just pointing to a tech that IMO is ready to make gaming more immersive and in mass could be affordable. MS or Sony missed something by not going there IMO..........

 

[patsu]

May be later ?

 

[MrFox]

Sony's Yoshida said they are currently playing with Occulus Rift devkits, and said "not yet" when asked about PS4 support, and said "no comment" with a big smile. Admittedly a big smile from Yoshida isn't exactly an indication of anything, I think he's always smiling.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/06/12/playstation-4-oculus-rift/

 

[AlphaWolf]

Wearing head gear is limiting and subjectively annoying and is likely to always remain very niche. Kinect and PSeye are potentially much more than head tracking and don't come with the need to strap things to your face.

 

[patsu]

Most likely.

But I would like them to show The Dark Sorceror tech demo in a 3D visor first.
Then let me decide whether I want one or two.

 

[temesgen]

Except that touch in most current products forces you to give up immediate control in one area to provide control in another.

One of the reason I tend to prefer third person shooters over first person shooters is because FPSes tend to lack a really robust cover mechanic. Both genre based go with a toggle mechanic between two different stances, which I find limiting in both circumstance.

Motion can provide a finer grain of control of looking around and above cover without exposing unnecessary parts of your avatar while allowing you to maintain total control over aiming, directional and firing.

I see motion control as a way to extend certain functionality without forcing your fingers or the sticks and buttons on the primary controller to perform dual roles.

Move is actually a pretty good implementation of motion controls for shooters, the issue for me though is the cost and the fact that the application of Move with other genres isn't nearly as good.

 

[brasnial]

Wearing head gear is limiting and subjectively annoying and is likely to always remain very niche. Kinect and PSeye are potentially much more than head tracking and don't come with the need to strap things to your face.

Totally agree such things will always be niche ....as for kinect its there to offer new experiences not replace existing ones in my opinion.

Has anyone used kinect voice controls in skyrim again in my opinion improved the game no end much easier to use shouts and change weapon ......just say it and it was done no more swapping out shouts or going through inventory screens .

 

[temesgen]

Totally agree such things will always be niche ....as for kinect its there to offer new experiences not replace existing ones in my opinion.

Has anyone used kinect voice controls in skyrim again in my opinion improved the game no end much easier to use shouts and change weapon ......just say it and it was done no more swapping out shouts or going through inventory screens .

But you don't need Kinect to use voice, we've had developers experimenting with voice commands for some time now with mixed results. If the case for Kinect is voice commands many would argue use a headset and save the hundred bucks. IMO the case for Kinect needs to be made in terms of the motion controls.

 

[dobwal]

I'm going to borrow your DS4 2600 to make my point - I agree that motion controls have potential but today right now the technology doesn't appear to be ready to replace the traditional controller, supplement it? Perhaps.... Why would I want to replace my DS4 with a 2600 controller?

Most wouldn't, the improvements in Kinect are good and perhaps MS will begin to show compelling gameplay scenarios that require a camera due to the install base, better tech or creativity on the part of the developer. MS has clearly thought thru this and thinks there is enough there to warrant the inclusion in XB1 so lets see what happens.

With that said the burden should be on them, however in the discussion we see many people championing the tech for potential but not being able to point to specifics. That is just wrong headed, MS needs to be able to demonstrate why the inclusion of Kinect justifies a higher price and possibly less power for the GPU. Again I am sure they have done the calculus and have their reasons so lets hear it.

Edit:

FWIW I would have liked to see one of the platform holders announce support for Occulus Rift standard with all games much like the remote play for VITA was presented. That IMO would have been a game changer, that tech makes sense right now today.

Yeah, Im not in favor of Kinect or any camera serving as a contoller replacement unless its for a game where the primary controller isn't really that useful like Dance Central.

But as a supplmental input that expands upon the primary controller I see plenty of uses.

I only have 2 hands and 10 fingers and I am not going to be fond of any control scheme that expands utility by forcing me accommodate that expansion with body parts that already have their hands full. LOL.

I see Kinect or PS Eye fully capable for subtle uses that adds a lot to the control scheme without forcing me into exaggerated movements while alleviating the need to cram that functionality onto the primary controller.

You will never get devs across the board to deeply explore the utility of Kinect or PS Eye if they were to remain peripherals.