It would be interesting to discuss Sony if this story was about Sony, or Intel, AMD, Google, Apple.. whatever.. Problem is that Machinima got caught and it's hopefully just a question of time before someone bitchslaps them and whoever thought up this idea of promotion with the needed laws..
Business Approach Comparison Sony PS4 and Microsoft Xbox
- Thread starter BRiT
- Start date
It would be interesting to discuss Sony if this story was about Sony, or Intel, AMD, Google, Apple.. whatever.. Problem is that Machinima got caught and it's hopefully just a question of time before someone bitchslaps them and whoever thought up this idea of promotion with the needed laws..
That's by a paid employee working for Sony, which is a different issue. It's also earlier in the new media for which laws were tightened. It also presumably cost Sony a lot of rep and a bit of money, so one wonders if they'd feel obliged to try such tactics again, especially if their product is doing fine on its own.
This latest PR faux pas is raised because MS have been caught. I don't think it fair to ignore it as 'everyone else might be doing the same' without proof, as that both excuses companies from doing wrong and ignores the legal (and moral) principal and 'innocent until proven guilty'. It's better to make a big deal of it and scare other similar behaviours away than to suggest itsnot a big deal.
MS didn't even spend much money on the campaign, so one has to wonder at the sense. It's another PR blunder for MS around their XB1, and a violation of consumer trust. It's hard to catch companies in such acts, I imagine, so the penalties should be proportionately higher, otherwise it'll be more economical to commit the crime and put up with the punishment if you get caught than to stick to the law. If anyone else is caught doing similar, like Sony as you suggest, the evidence should be laid on the table and they should be treated as harshly.
If you can prove it you should. All we have proof of right now is an unlawful attempt at astroturfing on Microsoft's behalf.
As expected it was Machinima that was to blame..
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...bers-to-say-nice-things-about-xbox-one-report
One thing i am curious about, have Machinima done anything like this before and was it marked as advertising? And secondly, what is the benefit of having random XBOX fans raving about a product if there is a disclaimer "Advertising", kind a takes the idea away..
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...bers-to-say-nice-things-about-xbox-one-report
One thing i am curious about, have Machinima done anything like this before and was it marked as advertising? And secondly, what is the benefit of having random XBOX fans raving about a product if there is a disclaimer "Advertising", kind a takes the idea away..
Yes, Machinima has run multiple "bonus CPM" campaigns that included a requirement that the videos be marked as promotional in nature in order to comply with FTC regulations. These include campaigns run for Comic-Con, PAX and E3. That's why it's so unusual that the Xbox One promotion did not include such instruction, and instead appears to (unlawfully) swear participants to silence. Obviously for Microsoft, going through third parties like Machinima make for very convenient avenues of plausible deniability.
Of course, having your astroturfing campaign clearly marked as advertising makes it far less effective, which may explain why a company might take the risk of trying to keep the payments a secret, even though that is clearly unlawful. But the laws exist precisely to prevent companies from secretly manipulating public opinion in this manner.
Of course, having your astroturfing campaign clearly marked as advertising makes it far less effective, which may explain why a company might take the risk of trying to keep the payments a secret, even though that is clearly unlawful. But the laws exist precisely to prevent companies from secretly manipulating public opinion in this manner.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hly6woHlGpQ
http://tbreak.com/megamers/55379/ne...-fired-from-gamespot-because-of-a-poor-score/
This is an example for a site like Gamespot and a reviewer like Jeff Gerstmann.
D
Deleted member 11852
Guest
Not great behaviour by any stretch but.. 7 years ago. Unless they are hiding it well, Sony seem to be playing it straight of late. Possibly because, unlike Microsoft and Nintendo, they are not sitting on a huge reserve of cash to sit out bad publicity, Sony really can't afford it. They have to appear better than the competition guy in every respect.
The argument that was made was that both Sony and Microsoft and i guess Nintendo? should have learned their lesson and wouldn't be doing this anymore, for obvious reasons...
I asked RudeCurve to prove it if he wants to claim Metacritic is full of "fake reviews" of Sony products, and your answer is a 7 year old incident in which the review was not altered to appease them?
My answer is less than 2 years old. Gerstmann talked about this just 2 years ago (5 years of silence) and yes, some reviewers like him do not alter their opinion for money or their boss commands and that's why he left gamespot and we know about sony's offer on the occasion of his return to gamespot family. You think when sony could have asked something like this from gamespot they leaved other sites and reviewers for no reasons? I mean do you realy think that their offer to gamespot was their first and last offer of all time? I wish I could think like you or you could think about everythings like this.
But all of us know that microsoft is the real DEVIL. It's funny to remember all of 2013 rumors and negative 3rd hand news and leaks about microsoft and their products and this FACT(!) that they are always false in such a situation for some reasons(!).
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Sorry but R&C:ToD was the last amazing R&C game. Might be personal taste, but 7.5 for that game was ridiculous and it makes you think that politics played a big part in that. Not that it matters what score it got, but still.
Billy Idol
Legend
No, I don't agree. A great game which deserves a great score.
Let's bring this back on track before it ends a closed-thread train-wreck.
Leave it at 'business is business' and they all try all sorts to increase profits, skirting either side of the law often enough, sometimes getting caught.
Leave it at 'business is business' and they all try all sorts to increase profits, skirting either side of the law often enough, sometimes getting caught.
Business approach:
B0wn has the following problems:
- Doesn't play nice with 50hz inputs and sources (and never will, because numbers)
- Expensive because of Kinect 2, but ...
- ... MS apparently thought media would be the killer Kinect 2 app, probably based on dashboard snooping with 360 owners. It's nice, but it's not a killer app for a £430 console.
- Kinect gaming lineup is poor. Which is just bloody unbelievable.
- Clearly not delivering the gaming performance of PS4, or even the gaming performance the hardware is capable of
- They can't even roll all their dashboard features out around the world because of Kinect localisation issues
This leads to the following possible futureplan:
- Make a Kinect-less SKU for the none English speaking world - yes, this would be a radically different 1Bon but still better than the NoBone that they're currently selling in a lot of places
- Make a smaller, cheaper version of the hardware (without HDMI-in) for people that aren't arsed about a a MS tv controller and can handle a little fan noise when gaming
- Develop a pure gaming OS, so they can get that 20%+ performance back that the performance stabilising virtual OS and API orgy is costing them, and make the Kinect features modular plugins.
MS had an incredible opportunity to show something genuinely new and revolutionary in the gaming space thanks to Kinect. But what did we get? GO HOME TV SPORTS DOG from inside a tent. Everyone decent loves dogs, but when that dog is higher resolution on a competitor machine, and when that dog doesn't even respond to commands in your language, dog might not be enough.
B0wn has the following problems:
- Doesn't play nice with 50hz inputs and sources (and never will, because numbers)
- Expensive because of Kinect 2, but ...
- ... MS apparently thought media would be the killer Kinect 2 app, probably based on dashboard snooping with 360 owners. It's nice, but it's not a killer app for a £430 console.
- Kinect gaming lineup is poor. Which is just bloody unbelievable.
- Clearly not delivering the gaming performance of PS4, or even the gaming performance the hardware is capable of
- They can't even roll all their dashboard features out around the world because of Kinect localisation issues
This leads to the following possible futureplan:
- Make a Kinect-less SKU for the none English speaking world - yes, this would be a radically different 1Bon but still better than the NoBone that they're currently selling in a lot of places
- Make a smaller, cheaper version of the hardware (without HDMI-in) for people that aren't arsed about a a MS tv controller and can handle a little fan noise when gaming
- Develop a pure gaming OS, so they can get that 20%+ performance back that the performance stabilising virtual OS and API orgy is costing them, and make the Kinect features modular plugins.
MS had an incredible opportunity to show something genuinely new and revolutionary in the gaming space thanks to Kinect. But what did we get? GO HOME TV SPORTS DOG from inside a tent. Everyone decent loves dogs, but when that dog is higher resolution on a competitor machine, and when that dog doesn't even respond to commands in your language, dog might not be enough.
I am going to be patient, no problem with that, but alas I agree with you.
Make something revolutionary or at least fully functional for Kinect (Ilumiroom, holograms etc), let the PlayStation and Wii do their thing, and let the console have its own personality. It is the way to go.
I would like to play games differently, like in a Resident Evil game opening a door using the knob clenching a fist and rotating it, salute people raising my hand, wink at merchants to get better prices, etc etc.
Finally, I hope they never sell a Kinect-less Xbox One. If that happens I leave console gaming altogether til a new generation.
XBOX One without the Kinect would be the XBOX 720, and it would instantly kill of the advantage of having Kinect 2 in every box, essentially making it a AddOn product, even for those that bought the "real" edition.
Smaller, cheaper is always good..
Pure Gaming OS would again split the market in 2, those that can run the games and those that can't leading the developers to develop for the lowest spec'd maching, XB1 like they already do.
IMHO Microsoft will have to stand by their product, maybe get a smaller market, but accept it and throw all the money they can on buying the love they need when they can't compete on the games. Yes exclusives, that everyone would expect to run and look better on the PS4, but hey, since they can't play it they have to make a choice.
Even if they decide to reduce the price for the XB1 to the price os the PS4 it will still imho be the PS4 that is worth getting if you are only there for the games*. The same price does not make it faster. To say it a little brutal, the XB1 would imho have to be cheaper than the PS4 to make it up for the lesser power**
*favorite exclusive games can be a factor of course
**Still to be determined..
Lesser power has been determined pretty clearly by now, in a few real world examples and not just on paper. Last glaring example being Tomb Raider running at 30/60fps.
Whether that is enough of a reason for people to choose the PS4 over it, now that's what is undetermined here.
I have to say, seeing how Sony pushed the "superpower" of the PS2 in the old days, i'm quite surprised they don't seem to be playing on the PS4's capabilities a lot in their marketing. Guess things are different now. All about the games and all that.
