You know, your negativity is really grating at times... But no, I don't think Microsoft was looking at TiVo as a model. I think it was more like the cable companies, and their "pay for hardware that is useless without the service charge" appears to be wildly successful. I don't think Microsoft is having any trouble at all with their live gold subscription business. Even if we use the low end of the numbers (50% of Live members have gold), they must have something like 25 million subscribers.
Business Approach Comparison Sony PS4 and Microsoft Xbox
- Thread starter BRiT
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I believe the last time this was discussed that I was aware of it was stated by many that MS didn't care about those folks who might not be willing to pay the gold live service. From that perspective they would use the price of a gold account to filter out the riff-raff. MS would rather folks buy another product if they have issues with paying for a gold account it would seem. One could extend that to say that MS could care less about folks not willing to pay the extra 100 dollars for their product as well. If so price cuts for the XB1 will be quite a while away.
Personally I think it is silly to penalize people for not buying a gold account. Hiding much of the basic functionality and charging for what other companies don't rubs me the wrong way but others have other opinions.
Another thing when it comes to say consumer anxiety over something would be the cost of the gold account going up in the future. Surely any company could raise the price of a service but if a consumer sees that basic functionality could be held hostage to future increases in their monthly nut that may increase their anxiety.
found both groupons and amazon specials on XBLG. mine cost 39.99.
It'd be interesting to see if Sony bundle Music Unlimited, Video Unlimited and Gaikai (Games Unlimited ?) together.
And if you own a PS Vita/3/4, will you get any special treatment in Gaikai ?
Your TiVo counter example proved my point. Cable companies are at least actually renting you the equipment for the fees they add. If they charged you $3-500 dollars up front for the DVRs in addition to the fees they'd be having as much luck as TiVo right now.
Now, if MS thinks an addressable market for Xbox One of about 25 million people is acceptable, good for them. But the Gold requirement will severely limit their ambitions if they want Xbox One to ride its media features to Apple-style cross-over success.
At this point I'd say anyone completely comfortable with Microsoft's ecosystem on the 360 will go to the XB1.
Will there be those who'll migrate to the PS4? Sure, but how many is the big question. The PS4 has the advantage in terms of price and value even from accessible features without paying for PS+.
People -even the ones here- are creatures of habit. Unless something disrupts what they already know in a fairly negative way, they'll stick with it no matter what . The alternative service/product could present some enticing positives to sway established precedent, but existing preferences have to falter in some way to make that happen.
Kinect improved but still not what it should be in functionality? "Eh, it'll get there."
DS4 is up to same/similar standards of the XB1 controller? "Offset sticks are better..."
Trophies are similar to Achievements? "But my Gamerscore?!"
Like I've said before, MS is in the lead coming from the 360 and it's their chance to screw-up. Sony just has to have enough to offer on hand for when or if they do. What Microsoft is doing at this point is moving over to the non-gaming audience with extra media options and Kinect (motion-controls/voice-commands). They'll keep the traditional gaming audience locked-in with a limited number of first-party exclusives and time-exclusive DLC, anything else is extra marketing/advertising blitz to keep consumer mindset focused on the Xbox brand.
Will there be those who'll migrate to the PS4? Sure, but how many is the big question. The PS4 has the advantage in terms of price and value even from accessible features without paying for PS+.
People -even the ones here- are creatures of habit. Unless something disrupts what they already know in a fairly negative way, they'll stick with it no matter what . The alternative service/product could present some enticing positives to sway established precedent, but existing preferences have to falter in some way to make that happen.
Kinect improved but still not what it should be in functionality? "Eh, it'll get there."
DS4 is up to same/similar standards of the XB1 controller? "Offset sticks are better..."
Trophies are similar to Achievements? "But my Gamerscore?!"
Like I've said before, MS is in the lead coming from the 360 and it's their chance to screw-up. Sony just has to have enough to offer on hand for when or if they do. What Microsoft is doing at this point is moving over to the non-gaming audience with extra media options and Kinect (motion-controls/voice-commands). They'll keep the traditional gaming audience locked-in with a limited number of first-party exclusives and time-exclusive DLC, anything else is extra marketing/advertising blitz to keep consumer mindset focused on the Xbox brand.
Microsoft it's approach appears to be causing a the major people from the XBoX team to leave so it seems. Fable wanted independence, Bungie wanted independence, Allard is missing, Corrinne Yu is gone now, Dan Matrick is gone as well. He felt Zynga was a better environment than MS. Ballmer wants out. And those are just the first that come to mind.
I think they are fearing the rumours that investors want to cut off the Xbox division.
I don't know the exact Business Approach that MS had when designing the Xbox1, but at this moment is doesn't seem to be a very healthy strategy. And that is quite the understatement
I think they are fearing the rumours that investors want to cut off the Xbox division.
I don't know the exact Business Approach that MS had when designing the Xbox1, but at this moment is doesn't seem to be a very healthy strategy. And that is quite the understatement
Some movement should be expected anyway. Back in the PS3 days not everyone was happy at Sony either.
The whole Ballmer thing though isn't healthy for the company. Both that he was there in the first place (if you ask me) and the way he is leaving.
The whole Ballmer thing though isn't healthy for the company. Both that he was there in the first place (if you ask me) and the way he is leaving.
The question was who is MS trying to sell to that they aren't selling to now ? If you are selling to "living room" folks with HDMI pass thru etc. they might not understand ahead of time to look for a better deal and wonder what is it going to cost next year. Xbox fans have a belief that the price won't change ( or if it does it's worth it ) but the living room stuff is to broaden the base a bit with a more casual crowd and that casual crowd doesn't have the same experiences or understanding as the xbox fan.
Again maybe MS doesn't care about folks who might have issues with paying a recurring cost for basic functionality and so it doesn't matter. Only time will tell.
Most of these questions are for next year anyway. Once the faithful have their new consoles and it comes down to weaning folks off of their 360s/PS3s you will have another set of variables to deal with.
Later on folks who are coming into the market for the first time will have 2 systems that could be quite a bit different than what they are now.
The people who refuse to pay fees for services are an ever shrinking minority (cell phones, Tivo, Netflix etc). It's just a matter of whether they are willing to buy into the live service. The value for live has grown over the years, but I bet they are already making a lot more off of it through other revenue streams (advertising, digital goods), raising the sub costs would be met with a huge outcry from millions of idiots who never paid for it anyway.
Mattrick might have been interested in the $45 Million signing bonus he got from Zynga.
But it's the ever growing question of how many of those subscription services are you going to pay for, not the question of paying subscription services in general.
If someone is paying for several subscription services all at the same time, they may decide to save money and cancel payment on one of those subs. Those subs are in a contstant threat of being cancelled because of what they are, then of course it means consumers are constantly re-evaluating all of those options at different points in time.
Live was popularized at a time where there was no unified online service like it, and it's barrier-to-entry in the 360 was lower than the competition (PS3, not Wii ofc). That's changed with the PS4 unless they bring down their console's price to an acceptable level and grab any 360 holdouts.
Maintaining that service's marketshare means adjusting to meet growing expectations, and keep those subscribers away from what the competition is offering. MS is somewhat starting to do that through Games with Gold, but they have to keep doing more maintain that existing foothold.
PS4 and XB1 BOM comparison.
MS is estimated to make $112 per console. Selling the first five million units into a supply constrained market before dumping the price to $399 nets them half a billion extra.
Cheers
MS is estimated to make $112 per console. Selling the first five million units into a supply constrained market before dumping the price to $399 nets them half a billion extra.
Cheers
Where do they get $39 for Kinect from? How do they cost the sensor? I've not found anything on cost of making 3D sensors other than 1) It's CMOS so should be simple and 2) far less capable sensors are far more expensive than $39. That could just be high margins though.
They pulled it out of their asses ? I'd certainly like to see a breakdown.
The DDR3 estimate seems high for XB1 and the GDDR5 seems low for PS4 (i've seen $88 in another tear down).
Production cost only ? Other 3D sensors have unit counts in thousands. Kinect 2 will see unit counts in many tens of millions.
Cheers
They messed up the NAND pricing. There is 8 Gb of the hynix emmc 4.5 memory.
I heard from someone who ought to have a good idea that the sensor costs between $50 and $75 on its own.
The way it was conveyed to me, it was an estimate of the COG. Not from anyone at MS, but from someone who'd looked very closely at similar tech.
scooby_dooby
Legend
If you've ever worked with MS in any capacity, you'd know that they are a very controlling partner. It think it's somewhere in their DNA as a company, everything is controlled, everything is slightly political, they constantly make you feel as if they're doing you a favor by allowing you to work with them.
So I'm really not surprised so many people wanting freedom, but I wouldn't chalk it up to anything in particular, this is just how MS is, how they've always been.
