BR/HD-DVD Thread
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This 1 sided vicious thrashing is tiresome. I read the CES thread and now read this. MS digital home plans are quickly doom because of few hiccup demos. HD is dead because few GB less. Come guys, let have some tolerance and be receptive to possibilities. I know u dudes can do it, as i have seen your "lets wait for more" desires after the shock Nvidia PS3 GPU news. Things may or may not go as plan always.
I know some feel strongly for BR because it suppose to be tech superior. Im no movie buffoon and not really follow BR vs HD, at end of day, dont see either format as bad. May be i wil miss out some extra out takes with HD, but imo the effect is no as great as what u can do with a 480p and 720p, or DX9 and DX7 graphics, even PS2 and Xbox. Superior tech dont gaurentee victory, and neither should they get such vicious support. I mean, console forum technophiles all be on the Xbox wagon already right?
Of course not. Have not. Need not.
I know some feel strongly for BR because it suppose to be tech superior. Im no movie buffoon and not really follow BR vs HD, at end of day, dont see either format as bad. May be i wil miss out some extra out takes with HD, but imo the effect is no as great as what u can do with a 480p and 720p, or DX9 and DX7 graphics, even PS2 and Xbox. Superior tech dont gaurentee victory, and neither should they get such vicious support. I mean, console forum technophiles all be on the Xbox wagon already right?
Of course not. Have not. Need not.
cybamerc said:
Price is an interesting point.
Is a dual layer HD-DVD as cheap as a single layer BRD ?
Because it would seem that HD-DVD titles will have to use DL more often than BRD given the limited space.
Price right now or price in the future?
It's a given than BRD will get cheaper and cheaper to produce and at some point the difference wont matter. But the HD-DVD capacity won't get bigger, imagine a HD release where it's 2 HD-DVD's and one BRD, what will be cheaper then?
How big a price difference is there actually between BRD and HD-DVD, we don't really know, we only know that BR have been producing lots of PR (and hardware) with only the goal of lowering production costs.
cybamerc said:
Well, price is an irrelevant issue right now since HD-DVD players and movies can't be bought for all the money in the world. BR will come down in price just like DVD did, and at least we won't have to put up with that idiotic flip-disc system that early movie releases had... Particulary WB it would seem, at least from looking at my own collection.
What everyone should worry about is that Sony (and MGM together) have thousands and thousands of HD-ready movies they can release at the snap of a finger on BDRom. 89 titles for launch won't cut it.
True. That is one maneuver I certainly won't dismiss--they have the capability of flooding the market, and so long as people know the PS3 will be bringing Blu-Ray playing capabilities as well...
Thing is, it's bound to be an expensive maneuver, so I don't know how far they'll be willing to go with it, and if it would be enough to drown out HD-DVD in the public's eye, or make other manufacturers/publishers wary.
Thing is, it's bound to be an expensive maneuver, so I don't know how far they'll be willing to go with it, and if it would be enough to drown out HD-DVD in the public's eye, or make other manufacturers/publishers wary.
cthellis42 said:
It will certainly cost money, but i'm sure they will release their top 100 selling titles on BDRom straight away, to say the least. It would be stupid otherwise, they do have a humongous catalogue which only needs to be printed on BDRom.
If they don't mess it up, they can easily "win" this "war". (The quotes have to be read in a Dr Evil's "laser" kind of way)
At the CES, HD-DVD announced a bunch of titles but had very few player hardware.
BR didn't announce titles but showed a lot of players.
BTW, if the Xbox2 is going to be an integral part of the living room and worked in with the Media Center PC, shouldn't it have a next-gen movie playback drive?
BR didn't announce titles but showed a lot of players.
BTW, if the Xbox2 is going to be an integral part of the living room and worked in with the Media Center PC, shouldn't it have a next-gen movie playback drive?
That's where the "multiple models" possibility comes from, though I don't ultimately think it would be a good idea from a gaming standpoing. When we were pondering the possibility of multiple models for the PS3, I was pretty sure it would have a detrimental splintering effect on PS3 gaming, so their decision to make Blu-Ray be a part of the base unit is really what counts.
It is possible that Xenon will roll in HD-DVD in their base unit as well, but it seems more unlikely over time. And while it could indeed end up in a higher-priced HD-bearing (among other possible enhancements) unit, it wouldn't have the same effect on next-generation gaming, and would also make it have much less marketplace impact for HD-DVD and many people would just as soon wait for higher-quality dedicated players before making a decision.
In the end, though, it all depends on A) how much extra Microsoft is willing to spend or B) how desperate the HD-DVD forum is for getting into one of the next-gen consoles.
It is possible that Xenon will roll in HD-DVD in their base unit as well, but it seems more unlikely over time. And while it could indeed end up in a higher-priced HD-bearing (among other possible enhancements) unit, it wouldn't have the same effect on next-generation gaming, and would also make it have much less marketplace impact for HD-DVD and many people would just as soon wait for higher-quality dedicated players before making a decision.
In the end, though, it all depends on A) how much extra Microsoft is willing to spend or B) how desperate the HD-DVD forum is for getting into one of the next-gen consoles.
One argument you can make is that it necessarily wouldn't help HD-DVD manufacturers for Xenon to have an HD-DVD drive. It would help the format but it wouldn't help the manufacturers to have a $300 game console launch around the same time they are launching $1000 HD-DVD players.
Same argument could be made for Blue-Ray and the PS3. Except possibly, if they sell some $1000 BR players for a few months and then the PS3 comes out but doesn't have record capability, they might be able to peacefully co-exist.
Same argument could be made for Blue-Ray and the PS3. Except possibly, if they sell some $1000 BR players for a few months and then the PS3 comes out but doesn't have record capability, they might be able to peacefully co-exist.
wco81 said:
The only difference is that Sony are the ones driving the BlueRay movement, so it's great for them to have a medium like PS3 launch their new format.
On Xenon, MS doesn't care what format will win, what format will fail, they just have not much of a choice than to go with HDDVD, unless they want to pay royalties to their direct competitors for using BDROM.
So, Sony might want to release PS3 with fewer features than a full blown BDROM player to both keep costs down and also to push people to buy proper fully fledged BDROM players, after they get the appetiser with PS3. That's what many people did last time around.
wco81 said:
Yeah but as it stands, Sony will have to pay royalties to Microsoft if the PS3 plays back movies, including those encoded in VC-1.
Well that's another issue, that's unavoidable and accounted for already. BDROM royalties are avoidable by just not using BDROM. Also, i'm sure there should be a difference between the cost of royalties between a simple codec and a whole technology.
MS has the cheapest royalties on their codec. They wanted to be on their the worst possible way.
Oh and there was this other nugget from the CES where Gates talked off the cuff about how it would be good for Sony to adopt WMA for their digital audio players when going against the iPod.
Never mind that MS is assaulting Sony's most profitable business. Sony should just pay MS and use WMA.
Oh and there was this other nugget from the CES where Gates talked off the cuff about how it would be good for Sony to adopt WMA for their digital audio players when going against the iPod.
Never mind that MS is assaulting Sony's most profitable business. Sony should just pay MS and use WMA.
Sounds like someone's desperate to sell their formats.
And i guess Gates sees Apple as a bigger theat to their PC businees than Sony is to their console business.
Or, maybe i should rephrase that. MS is aware that if Apple gets more powerful, they'll lose a LOT of money in their PC business. Whereas MS has nothing to lose in the Console Market. They already lost a lot...
But anyway, let's stay on topic...
And i guess Gates sees Apple as a bigger theat to their PC businees than Sony is to their console business.
Or, maybe i should rephrase that. MS is aware that if Apple gets more powerful, they'll lose a LOT of money in their PC business. Whereas MS has nothing to lose in the Console Market. They already lost a lot...
But anyway, let's stay on topic...
There's a reasonable chance for them to co-exist, since first off the players coming out (that have been announced so far) are talking more about a $500 price point anyway, and they'll of course have much better playback quality and A/V options than what's likely to be on the consoles. BR at the high end will be bringing out their recorders, since the format was rather designed around that to begin with.wco81 said:
But yeah, I do expect the consoles to be doing a lot more format-driving for the upcoming tech, and even if that costs initial $$$ from the early adopters, it will go a long way towards establishing more viability on the marketplace, so it's still highly-desired by both sides.
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OK. That's it. I vote for blu-ray. 'nuff said.
Acert93 said:
With the 30 GB dual-layer configuration, it should be able to. But just as the first DVD releases were single layer (some you had to flip over in the middle of the movie), the first HD DVD and Blu-Ray releases may be single-layer. Then it might get a little tight unless they dial back the bitrate.
The other thing is that BR can easily record in dual-layer but apparently, HD-DVD is having problems getting past single-layer. The record modes are MPEG2 because there are no real-time encoders for the newer codecs. So under these conditions, HD-DVD can't record 2 hours of HD video.
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