BR/HD-DVD Thread
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PC-Engine said:
They could have done something better with the HDDVD logo though... I mean, what about the next next generation? NGSHDDVD? (Next Gen Super High Def DVD)... the logo will be longer than the product's model number.
Well there we go!
Dude, you been on vacation or something?
Dude, you been on vacation or something?
Why the need for holographic discs, when Blu Ray can store up to 200GB in eight (?) layers.
Anyway, what's so different anr "revolutionary" in these "holographic" discs compared to multilayer BluRay or any other multilayer (>3 layers) digital discs? Aren't the "holographic" discs after all just basicallly many more layers than just two. That's how I understand them, but I'm known to be often wrong
Anyway, what's so different anr "revolutionary" in these "holographic" discs compared to multilayer BluRay or any other multilayer (>3 layers) digital discs? Aren't the "holographic" discs after all just basicallly many more layers than just two. That's how I understand them, but I'm known to be often wrong
"Why do we need anything better?" As usual, the answer is "if it can be delivered bigger and cheaper."
However I will say that since HD-DVD and BR are making their big push now, I don't expect to see any other formats pushed for a long time unless they can be easily encorporated in. As far as holographic disks go, I don't think that will be the case.
They've made their move, and basically we get to live with it. (As far as mainstream media goes. For personal/PC/business matters, there are always more options.)
However I will say that since HD-DVD and BR are making their big push now, I don't expect to see any other formats pushed for a long time unless they can be easily encorporated in. As far as holographic disks go, I don't think that will be the case.
They've made their move, and basically we get to live with it. (As far as mainstream media goes. For personal/PC/business matters, there are always more options.)
rabidrabbit said:Why the need for holographic discs, when Blu Ray can store up to 200GB in eight (?) layers.
Anyway, what's so different anr "revolutionary" in these "holographic" discs compared to multilayer BluRay or any other multilayer (>3 layers) digital discs? Aren't the "holographic" discs after all just basicallly many more layers than just two. That's how I understand them, but I'm known to be often wrong
First:
I believe (though I could be wrong) that no 8 layer BRD is in any current BluRay standard, and I doubt any conforming BluRay drive would be able to read such a beast if it were to be made.
On top of that, I don't think anyone has the faintest idea how to mass manufacture an 8 layer disc without driving fabrication costs through the stratosphere.
Second:
One good reason to use the holographic disk is that (for example) Optware's holographic disk technology has a stated read bandwidth of 1 GB/s (!!). There is no hope in hell that BluRay-anything can match that if holographic optical disk should ever become a viable format.
True, the 8 layer 200GB disc would most likely need new equipment, both user and manufacturer.
I'm sure said "holographic discs" would be much more expensive to manufacture, and would require significant changes to manufacuring lines.
The possible 200GB Blu Ray will likely be cheaper to manufacture than a disc based on holographic tech, as there aleready will be BR lines ready and they can be converted to 8 layer/200GB lines relatively easily.
I really don't understand why should we have waited for these elusive holographic storages instead of going for Blu Ray and/or HD-DVD.
The DVD is just no more enough for high definition material, there is a need for higher capacity now, not till year 2007-
And there really is no need for 200GB if you don't look at the medium as a replacement for hard discs.
You might as well bitch then why aren't we waiting for 1 Terabyte HD-Holographic discs, as the 200GB is only about 10 times of a HD-DVD
I'm sure said "holographic discs" would be much more expensive to manufacture, and would require significant changes to manufacuring lines.
The possible 200GB Blu Ray will likely be cheaper to manufacture than a disc based on holographic tech, as there aleready will be BR lines ready and they can be converted to 8 layer/200GB lines relatively easily.
I really don't understand why should we have waited for these elusive holographic storages instead of going for Blu Ray and/or HD-DVD.
The DVD is just no more enough for high definition material, there is a need for higher capacity now, not till year 2007-
And there really is no need for 200GB if you don't look at the medium as a replacement for hard discs.
You might as well bitch then why aren't we waiting for 1 Terabyte HD-Holographic discs, as the 200GB is only about 10 times of a HD-DVD
Yeahm, bitching about 8-layer BDRom, then coming up with Homographic solution to compare to it made me laugh.
At the end of the day, yeah Homo solutions will offer a comparatively immense bandwidth, which one day will be needed, but they will also be very expensive to manufacture, probably more so than a "simple" 8-layer BDRom. And will also require major reconstruction in the manufacturing lines, maybe more so than an 8-layer BDRom.
If it were cheaper and better, we would be using it today.
At the end of the day, yeah Homo solutions will offer a comparatively immense bandwidth, which one day will be needed, but they will also be very expensive to manufacture, probably more so than a "simple" 8-layer BDRom. And will also require major reconstruction in the manufacturing lines, maybe more so than an 8-layer BDRom.
If it were cheaper and better, we would be using it today.
There is little point in speculating about 8-layer BRDs. There is no standard for them, there is no plan to mass produce them, there is no mass-marketed hardware being designed to read or write them.
The 8 layer BRD was a tech demo. Like the 4 ghz Pentium 4, there's no guarantee such a disk will ever be feasible or actually ship in any form.
Who knows how long it will take before 8 layer BRD is feasible? By that time, who knows, holographic disks may be viable and superior alternative.
The point is, right now, the choice is between single/dual layer HD DVD and single/dual layer BRD. And everything I know points to HD DVD being first with viable mainstream products at a reasonable cost.
The 8 layer BRD was a tech demo. Like the 4 ghz Pentium 4, there's no guarantee such a disk will ever be feasible or actually ship in any form.
Who knows how long it will take before 8 layer BRD is feasible? By that time, who knows, holographic disks may be viable and superior alternative.
The point is, right now, the choice is between single/dual layer HD DVD and single/dual layer BRD. And everything I know points to HD DVD being first with viable mainstream products at a reasonable cost.
Oh really. All that you said about 8-layer BluRay can be applied to holographic discs, even more so.
Edit: Coming first doesn't automatically mean it will survive, the winner takes it all or even stayin' alive.
Edit: Coming first doesn't automatically mean it will survive, the winner takes it all or even stayin' alive.
The point is talk about holographic disks and 8 layer BRD is pie-in-the-sky.rabidrabbit said:
The standards being discussed today are single/dual layer HD DVD, and single/dual layer BRD. 8 layer BRD is NOT in the current standard and there is no plan to commericalize any such products, and it will be incompatible with today's drives anyway.
Of course.
http://www.eet.com/sys/news/showArticle.jhtml;;?articleID=57701336
When will 200GB BRDs be available?
When will 200GB BRDs be available?
rabidrabbit said:Aren't the "holographic" discs after all just basicallly many more layers than just two. That's how I understand them, but I'm known to be often wrong
Holographic disks just have one physical data recording layer (sometimes a second layer is used to embed a servo control track), but they use a different principle to encode the data onto the surface of the disc.
BRD/HDDVD/DVD/CD all use a laser and a photodetector to read and write one bit of data at a time on the surface of the disc. They do multiple layers by having the upper layer be "semi-transparent" so the laser beam can focus "around" the bits etched into upper layer to read the bits stored on the lower layer.
Holographic discs use a laser and a CCD to read and write entire holographic "pages" of data onto the surface of the disc. With the way holographs work, it's possible to store many "pages" in the same location on the surface of the disc (just like how a holographic image stored on a 2D film "contains" many views of a 3D object, which is what gives it the 3D appearance). No layers are involved.
When will the 130 mm Hitachi-Maxell holographic discs be available in consumer electronics?
There's nothing else stopping 200GB BR manufacturing and selling, except that the standard 2 layer Blu Ray discs satisfy the market demand now, there's no need for 200GB 8 layer disc to satisfy the apparently higher costs
There's nothing else stopping 200GB BR manufacturing and selling, except that the standard 2 layer Blu Ray discs satisfy the market demand now, there's no need for 200GB 8 layer disc to satisfy the apparently higher costs
rabidrabbit said:
There do exist significant technical difficulties including designing a cheap laser pickup that can actually do this, and coming up with an 8 layer fabrication process that won't destroy yields. Neither is trivial otherwise 8-layer BRD would already be in the spec.
How's the writing to a holgraphic discs?
How affordable would a holographic disc recorder be?
I would imagine they'd be quite a lot more expensive than Blu Ray and HD-DVD recorders, as the writing process seems to be that much more complex (I really have no idea how it works)
What exactly is written to a disc in holographic tech? In CD's and DVD's they are those varying sized "holes", what are they in holodiscs?
Are they some kind of holographic images, like in those stamps that can be often found in copyprotected goods (like if you own WinXP official discs, there are some holograms on it )
How affordable would a holographic disc recorder be?
I would imagine they'd be quite a lot more expensive than Blu Ray and HD-DVD recorders, as the writing process seems to be that much more complex (I really have no idea how it works)
What exactly is written to a disc in holographic tech? In CD's and DVD's they are those varying sized "holes", what are they in holodiscs?
Are they some kind of holographic images, like in those stamps that can be often found in copyprotected goods (like if you own WinXP official discs, there are some holograms on it
)rabidrabbit said:
Who knows that the costs will be. Holographic discs are still relatively pie-in-the-sky.
In CD/DVD/HDDVD/BRD, you have little pits on the surface of the disc. (For rewritable and burned discs, it's a different coloured area caused by the heat of the laser.)
Are they some kind of holographic images, like in those stamps that can be often found in copyprotected goods (like if you own WinXP official discs, there are some holograms on it
In a holographic disk, yes, that's exactly it. They write little holographic images onto the surface of the disc. Your data is arranged into "pages" the pages are loaded onto a DLP device, a laser is reflected off the DLP device and interfered with a reference beam. This causes an interference pattern to be recorded onto the disc. (In one possible implementation anyway.)
http://www.optware.co.jp/english/index_tech.htm
Well, then I'd imagine writing to a holographic disc would then be a fairly complicated process, at leas when compared to writing to CD and (HD)DVD and BluRay.
Does that mean that holographic recorders aren't necessarily ready for consumer market? From those press releases they give an indication that they are merely for consumer playback and the recording is reserved for data backup in companies.
Does that mean that holographic recorders aren't necessarily ready for consumer market? From those press releases they give an indication that they are merely for consumer playback and the recording is reserved for data backup in companies.
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