BR/HD-DVD Thread

[Nappe1]

One thing is certain, if PC playback is supported then there will be some form of pirate copies making the round.

*imagines downloading 50-200GB files*

take a five years back and try yourself imaging that basically every average home would have afford 1Mbit downstream.

then imagine where we will be with in next 5 years. I suspect that 1 to 5 Terabytes as a hard drive will be pretty basic stuff.

My biggest problem with HD-DVD is that amount of more space it allows, it still isn't directly backwards compliant. So, if you have to have 2 two lasers or higher tech single laser, why not take more out of it. Again, there has been a talk about BD having possibility even more layers than 2, which makes it more interesting.

Also, europe is so late with HDTV standardization that it is possible earlier adopted disc become problematic. Right now it seems that while US HDTV has resolution of 1280x720p, europeans will have something like 1366x768p (basically this means that even if HD-DVD comes, it might get out dated before europe gets properly in the train. so I am not going to buy either one during next few years. let's take another look of the situation in christmas 2006 or early in the 2007.)

 

[KnightBreed]

Also, europe is so late with HDTV standardization that it is possible earlier adopted disc become problematic. Right now it seems that while US HDTV has resolution of 1280x720p, europeans will have something like 1366x768p (basically this means that even if HD-DVD comes, it might get out dated before europe gets properly in the train. so I am not going to buy either one during next few years. let's take another look of the situation in christmas 2006 or early in the 2007.)

Hopefully Europe doesn't decide to segment the market. The disc player or television will scale any source to the proper resolution anyway, so as long as the television supports an ATSC input standard, this shouldn't be an issue. By the way, both HD-DVD and Blu-ray will support 1080p@24 or 30fps maximum.

 

[wco81]

I'd heard that Europe would adopt the same resolution formats as the US ATSC formats?

There are supposedly some satellite services broadcasting HDTV already.

The 768p resolution is probably something specific to a particular model of a fixed-pixel display. The input would be still 720p or 1080i (or even 1080p) but it would scale to the native resolutions of some of these fixed-pixel displays.

It would make no sense to adopt such an oddball resolution since there will be a lot of content at 720p, 1080i and soon, 1080p.

 

[Jov]

I'd heard that Europe would adopt the same resolution formats as the US ATSC formats?

There are supposedly some satellite services broadcasting HDTV already.

The 768p resolution is probably something specific to a particular model of a fixed-pixel display. The input would be still 720p or 1080i (or even 1080p) but it would scale to the native resolutions of some of these fixed-pixel displays.

It would make no sense to adopt such an oddball resolution since there will be a lot of content at 720p, 1080i and soon, 1080p.

If the world can unify on one set of HD standard then great. Hopefully it won’t be like the NTSC & PAL fragmentation which leads to down graded output for PAL regions for games (e.g. 25fps at NTSC Res --> ugly boarders!!). I have my doubts though.

 

[wco81]

Well they could have the same resolutions but the refresh rate or frame rates will be different.

Also they could use different codecs as well as different modulation schemes.

 

[Jov]

Well they could have the same resolutions but the refresh rate or frame rates will be different.

Also they could use different codecs as well as different modulation schemes.

If the h/w (e.g HD-TV) has fix resolutions (480p, 720p, 1080i/p) then even with various modulation schemes it will still lead to boarders given games are dev in a slightly lower resolution like NTSC --> PAL. Maybe some will have tech to scale to native res, but then the quality will not be as good as native out-of-the-box.

 

[cybamerc]

Right now it seems that while US HDTV has resolution of 1280x720p, europeans will have something like 1366x768p

Er... what are you talking about? DVB supports the same HD resolutions as ATSC (720p/1080i/1080p). In fact, 1080p was only added to the ATSC spec after it was made part of the DVB spec.

Don't tell me you came to that "conclusion" based on the resolutions of socalled HD plasma panels...

 

[cybamerc]

Jov:

> If the world can unify on one set of HD standard then great.

Won't happen. The US and the EU were working on a joint standard for a while but the US wanted HD NOW while the EU wanted to wait a bit until a proper standard could be developed. The result is that the HD in the US is a bit of a mess and in the EU it is virtually non-existant.

In the end broadcast standards will mean little to the proliferation of HD. Flat panels will push HD to consumers whether they care for it or not. As such I expect Europe to catch up with the US when it comes to HD within a couple of years.

 

[cthellis42]

In here I reference ultimate_end's thread if we want to continue keeping all the discussion in one place.

 

[SegaR&D]

Regarding the new JVC DVD/Bluray disc,

This causes more problems than it solves, another physical variation that disc pressing line has to deal with at higher cost.

Let's take a look at DVD/HD-DVD dual format disc; was there any changes to physical specification of the disc? Nope, all Toshiba did was to swap the back layer of DVD with HD layer and some changes in DVD drive's ROM, that's it. Does it cost any more to press this DVD/HD-DVD disc than HD-DVD disc? Nope. DVD, HD-DVD, and DualDisc are basically the same discs that can be pressed on the same line.

Now look at that new BR-ROM variation that JVD introduced; is the physical structure of this disc same as DVD or BR-ROM? Nope. Does it require its own dedicated press line? Possibly. Is it expensive? Yes.

The reason people call HD-DVD the VHS and BR-ROM the BetaMax is simple; the cost. HD-DVD discs and drives are half the price of Blu-Ray discs and drives, and this is why the Hollywood chose HD-DVD over BR-ROM.

 

[wco81]

You mean Hollywood as in Disney?

If HD-DVD drives are half the cost, they won't be using the same blue-laser diodes which cost so much on Blue-Ray drives?

Stop blowing smoke.

 

[HappyBread]

I'd heard that Europe would adopt the same resolution formats as the US ATSC formats?

There are supposedly some satellite services broadcasting HDTV already.

The 768p resolution is probably something specific to a particular model of a fixed-pixel display. The input would be still 720p or 1080i (or even 1080p) but it would scale to the native resolutions of some of these fixed-pixel displays.

It would make no sense to adopt such an oddball resolution since there will be a lot of content at 720p, 1080i and soon, 1080p.

BSkyB will start broadcasting HD in 2006 (UK), don't know about mainland Europe. Anyway their HD set-top box will support both 720p/50Hz and 1080i/25Hz high definition formats. And Deadmeat Blu-ray is the better format.

 

[SegaR&D]

Here are more points to consider -

The HD-DVD/DVD hybrid does this at no extra cost. Dual format compatibility feature is free and can be done on existing DVD pressing lines. Studios don't have to invest any more money to use this feature.

Producing such a disc as JVC has just announced is a complex job; it involves three protective layers 0.1 mm, 0.5 mm, and 0.6 mm, a special Blu-Ray layer(JVD states the Blu-Ray layer of this disc is not normal), and a complicated disc bonding process that is essentially one-pass DVD and one pass Blu-Ray.

BR-ROM already suffers from low yield rate of 70% and 5 second pressing time, compared to 95% yield rate and 3.5 second pressing time of HD-DVD. This new combo disc will probably drop the yield to 50% and stretch the pressing time to 10 seconds, driving the cost of disc production sky-high.

This is why Toshiba considers they won the war and rejected Sony's plea for a compromise.

BR-ROM drives cost twice as much, and BR-ROMs cost twice as much to press as well.

BR-ROM is an expensive technology much like BetaMax of 70s. It just can't compete with HD-DVD in price.

 

[Rur0ni]

HD-DVD = 30GB
Blu-Ray = 50GB

right?

 

[Cryect]

BSkyB will start broadcasting HD in 2006 (UK), don't know about mainland Europe. Anyway their HD set-top box will support both 720p/50Hz and 1080i/25Hz high definition formats. And Deadmeat Blu-ray is the better format.

Ick still stuck with 50 Hz, and I hope that 1080i is at 50 Hz and not 25 Hz unless you mean 25 full frames per second.

 

[SegaR&D]

No matter which way you look at it HD-DVD has won the war -

Warner
Paramount
Universal
New Line
Dreamworks

No wonder Sony begged for a compromise. The writing is on the wall.

 

[Ty]

Hmm, which of those are exclusive?

We should have a recap of which studios have lined up behind who.

 

[wco81]

Has Dreamworks formally said anything?

People assumed that since Paramount or Universal (whichever one distributes Dreamworks films) announced for HD-DVD, that DW would follow suit.

But I hadn't seen any link to any press release.

Quite an anti-Sony faction we have going on in this forum.

 

[randycat99]

Quite an anti-Sony faction we have going on in this forum.

Doesn't it remind you of every commentator outlook and PR stunt strategically placed during the 3 presidential debates and all the way into election day? That seems to be the modus operandi these days- to color in a context where there is none, wherever possible, in hopes of facilitating that very last incremental degree of contributing to the success of their designated candidate? If you can't directly own the reality of the matter, move to owning the perception of the matter. (...and I am certainly not advocating such measures, just pointing out how many seem to gravitate to it these days- personally, I think it is pretty sleazy and only serves to muddy the real issues in the matter)

 

[Ty]

Well I wouldn't put too much stock in someone who was trying to pass themselves off as a real Sega employee. Definately a few screws loose there.