BR/HD-DVD Thread

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-tkf- said:
PC-Engine said:
I were correct...

In what way?

The numbers i posted are correct.

Read jvd's post which I quoted. That's reality I'm afraid.

The numbers I posted are also correct, difference being it includes worldwide numbers as well as DVD drives for computers which make up a HUGE share of the DVD market.

If you think PS2 still had a significant affect on pushing the DVD format after analyzing those numbers, then I offer my condolenses. :LOL:
 
My god, got to love the selective bolding of DVD-ROM sales. :rolleyes: No wait, that deserves another few :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: smiles. :rolleyes:


1.) Where are the numbers from Japan? Accoarding to older reports (which I won't dig up), DVD sales were lagging when PS2 launched.

2.) How many DVD-Video movies are watched via DVD-ROM players? Do you honestly believe that 140 million of those DVD-ROM drives are being used to watch videos? More like to rip divx and copy them today than anything.

3.) How many of those DVD-ROM sales were accounted by new computers bought and just being bundled because #1 it's the next new thing and #2 backwards compatible with CD-ROM anyway?

4.) If there are only 16 million DVD-Video players in the US (I take it the largest market), that tells us that PS2 has probably surpassed that already (25 million PS2 units in the US by today 2004?)?


PC-Engine said:
Also DVD drive numbers for computers cannot be ignored.

Yeah, Hollywood will love those for sure. Wonder how many of those have DVDShrink or appropriate divx codecs running on the side and ditributing pirated content over p2p networks /and or duplicating. :rolleyes:

PC-Engine said:
jvd and I were correct...

:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
 
My god, got to love the selective bolding of DVD-ROM sales

My god indeed. Did you not look at all the numbers? Or was that denial kicking in? :LOL: I bolded the DVD ROM drives for a reason. Care to guess what that reason is? :LOL:

1.) Where are the numbers from Japan? Accoarding to older reports (which I won't dig up), DVD sales were lagging when PS2 launched.

So the DVD format rests on the Japanese market now? I wasn't aware Hollywood movies came from Tokyo. :LOL:

2.) How many DVD-Video movies are watched via DVD-ROM players? Do you honestly believe that 140 million of those DVD-ROM drives are being used to watch videos? More like to rip divx and copy them today than anything.

1999
Over 6,300 DVD-Video titles in the U.S.
4,019,000 DVD-Video players shipped in the U.S. (Installed base of 5,457,000.)

About 26 million DVD-ROM drives worldwide.

Why would people buy computers with DVD-ROM drives that are more expensive than computers with CD-ROM drives if there were only 75 DVD-ROM software titles released for computers? What would be the benefit of having a more expensive DVD-ROM drive that's ove twice the cost of a CD-ROM drive? :LOL:

26 million DVD-ROM drives worldwide and 5.5 million DVD players installed in the US alone. That's already over 30 million DVD capable equipment in 1999 without even counting Europe and Asia and over 6,300 DVD video (film) titles BEFORE the PS2 even hit the market. You telling me PS2 actually caused this even though it wasn't released until 2000? :oops:

3.) How many of those DVD-ROM sales were accounted by new computers bought and just being bundled because #1 it's the next new thing and #2 backwards compatible with CD-ROM anyway?

Read above, there were already over 6,300 DVD video (film) titles available even before the PS2 was released. In other words the DVD format itself had already picked up without any help from PS2 sorry.

4.) If there are only 16 million DVD-Video players in the US (I take it the largest market), that tells us that PS2 has probably surpassed that already (25 million PS2 units in the US by today 2004?)?

WRONG!...that's how many were shipped in 2003 in the US. The installed base in 2003 in the US for DVD players alone was 73 million not counting DVD-ROM drives. Today there are 81 million DVD players in the US alone again not counting DVD-ROM drives.

Yeah, Hollywood will love those for sure. Wonder how many of those have DVDShrink or appropriate divx codecs running on the side and ditributing pirated content over p2p networks /and or duplicating.

And developers will love the fact you can pirate PS2 DVD games. What's your point? Grasping for straws aren't we?

Oh and yeah keep laughing about the facts jvd and I just handed you on a platter. ;)

Keep hanging on to that dream where PS2 catapulted the DVD format. :LOL:
 
My point was AS SO CLEARLY STATED SEVERAL TIMES AND IGNORED JUST AS WELL!

When DVD was 3 years old it had sold 7 million stand alone players.

When the PS2 was 2 years old i had sold 10 million.

What i tried to show with those numbers is that the PS3 could be an even bigger factor, since the HD format will be 3 years old and the PS3 should be around 2 years at that time.

Right now there is actually 81 million stand alone players and 25 million PS2s in the USA. So even today plenty of PS2s are used for DVD playback.
 
-tkf- said:
My point was AS SO CLEARLY STATED SEVERAL TIMES AND IGNORED JUST AS WELL!

When DVD was 3 years old it had sold 7 million stand alone players.

When the PS2 was 2 years old i had sold 10 million.

What i tried to show with those numbers is that the PS3 could be an even bigger factor, since the HD format will be 3 years old and the PS3 should be around 2 years at that time.

Right now there is actually 81 million stand alone players and 25 million PS2s in the USA. So even today plenty of PS2s are used for DVD playback.


Wtf does stand alone players have to do with anything .

I know many people to this day that still use thier first dvd rom drives that they bought in 1998 to watch dvds on thier tv or montior . NOt to mention all the friends I have that live at college adn will hook up a laptop to a tv or just watch it on thier laptop .


Fact of the matter is in 1999 when the ps2 launch there were 26.4 million players world wide. IF that is not mass market than I don't know what was .

Hell in 2002 there were more dvd rom drives in the usa than there are currently ps2s in the world.


The ps2 did not drive the dvd market. Ps3 will not drive the blueray market . THe problem is the ps3 in its first year will be limited quanitys . Blueray movies will be released in small numbers (just like the first year of hd -dvd and dvds ) and it will be fighting against dvds .

Dvds are not going to go away when the next gen formats come out . Hell vhs movies are still being sold today.

Will being in ps3 help blueray in the long run , yes it will .

Would having cheap blueray roms for the pc close to launch (200$ mark) hell yes , alot more than in the ps3 .
 
DVD as data storage is different to DVD as a movie viewing format.

Even though PCs had been used viewing DVD films before PS2, I assume it was PS2 that introduced DVD as part of the living room and home theatre for a significant amount of people.

I'd say that before PS2 DVD was sort of new LaserDisc, and PS2 together with standalone DVD players prices going down (arguably in part affected by competition by PS2) brought DVD to a "VHS" level (in acceptance).
 
jvd said:
When DVD was 3 years old it had sold 7 million stand alone players.

When the PS2 was 2 years old it had sold 10 million.

This is from the US market, if we say it's going be exactly like that for HD, then there will be 7 Million HD players on the market when the PS3 is 2 years old, and there will be 10 million PS3 Blu-Ray players.

That is my basic point.. :!:

I have no idea how many people that watch DVDs on the PC, do you?
I know that about 50% watch DVDs on their PS2.
 
london-boy said:
-tkf- said:
I have no idea how many people that watch DVDs on the PC, do you?

I do, best quality i could ever dream of.

You must be using something else that standard software DVD players, since their deinterlacing sucks :)

I tried venturing down that road , bought a Panasonic XP30 instead.
 
-tkf- said:
london-boy said:
-tkf- said:
I have no idea how many people that watch DVDs on the PC, do you?

I do, best quality i could ever dream of.

You must be using something else that standard software DVD players, since their deinterlacing sucks :)

I tried venturing down that road , bought a Panasonic XP30 instead.

I have never seen anything that looks better than my output on other stand alone DVD players. I have an NV35. And standard PowerDVD, with that Nvidia special whatever that normally cost 10 quid to download. Not sure what it does though.

EDIT: And i really would love to see how HD material looks, cause this already looks so damn good.
 
PC-Engine said:
My god indeed. Did you not look at all the numbers? Or was that denial kicking in? I bolded the DVD ROM drives for a reason. Care to guess what that reason is?

PC-Engine said:
Why would people buy computers with DVD-ROM drives that are more expensive than computers with CD-ROM drives if there were only 75 DVD-ROM software titles released for computers? What would be the benefit of having a more expensive DVD-ROM drive that's ove twice the cost of a CD-ROM drive?

As I said, I suspect the dramatic increase of DVD-ROM drives to be attributed to new PCs bought that were bundled with those drives rather than an old, outdated one. DVD-ROMs being backwards-compatible certainly helped this - doesn't mean they were being bought to play DVD-Videos.

PC-Engine said:
So the DVD format rests on the Japanese market now? I wasn't aware Hollywood movies came from Tokyo.

Who said anything of the sort? There are reports suggesting that PS2 was bought as a cheap dvd-player at first, simply because sales of standalone-players were lagging back in march 2000. Japan is a mere example in which PS2 obviously did kickstart some sales.

PC-Engine said:

Again, got to love the selective quoting. I prefer Ty's numbers (which you seem to be ignoring).

PC-Engine said:
Keep hanging on to that dream where PS2 catapulted the DVD format.

Huh? Who said that? There's a difference in "catapulting" a market and being another (but big) factor on the market. No one is putting this in favor of blu-ray, but if we are to assume that Ps3 will be equally as popular as PS2, having a guaranteed userbase of 75 million worldwide in 2010 (4 years after blu-ray officially kicks in and PS3 is launched) is certainly something that will be considered - regardless of what you or jvd or anyone thinks.
 
Phil said:
Huh? Who said that? There's a difference in "catapulting" a market and being another (but big) factor on the market. No one is putting this in favor of blu-ray, but if we are to assume that Ps3 will be equally as popular as PS2, having a guaranteed userbase of 75 million worldwide in 2010 (4 years after blu-ray officially kicks in and PS3 is launched) is certainly something that will be considered - regardless of what you or jvd or anyone thinks.

Matey, u're not gonna convince him. I thought people had given up already. Logic is futile.
 
london-boy said:
I have never seen anything that looks better than my output on other stand alone DVD players. I have an NV35. And standard PowerDVD, with that Nvidia special whatever that normally cost 10 quid to download. Not sure what it does though.

What do you output to?
 
Dreamworks to hop on the Blu-ray bandwagon?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,3604,1372274,00.html

Sony, the Japanese electronics and entertainment group, has approached arch-rival Toshiba in an attempt to prevent a damaging format war over their next-generation DVDs.

Toshiba, which is preparing to launch its own high-definition DVD player as soon as next Christmas, rebuffed the offer to work together, however, setting in train a worldwide battle for consumers.

The overtures were made by senior Japanese executives at Sony over the past few weeks. They follow similar, successful talks in 1994, when the industry agreed a standard format for the launch of DVDs.

They also came as Toshiba was finalising support from three major movie studios - Warner Bros, Paramount Pictures and Universal for its own technology - called, somewhat confusingly, HD-DVD.

The support of such content providers is vital in encouraging consumers to buy the next-generation discs. Sony has signed up its own big guns, with Disney announcing its decision to adopt Sony's Blu-ray technology last week.

Dreamworks, the studio behind animated hits Shrek and Shark's Tale, is also poised to back Blu-ray, joining Sony's own in-house movie studio and MGM.

The stakes are high for the electronics and entertainment industries. The video format war that developed 20 years ago, in which Sony's Betamax technology lost out to JVC's VHS to become the industry standard, infuriated consumers and cost the losers millions. Toshiba expects sales of its HD-DVDs to hit £1.5bn by 2010. The new players offer better picture quality, especially on the increasingly popular wide-screen televisions, as well as far greater storage and interactivity. For the industry, they also have the added advantage of preventing piracy.

Although most commentary has focused on films, of equal significance is the hugely lucrative games market. PlayStation 3, the new version of Sony's games console due out by early 2006, will come equipped for Blu-ray DVDs. XBox 2, the latest version of Microsoft's rival to PlayStation, will be released some time next year.

Although publicly neutral on the new format, the software giant would have to spend more to develop XBox to work with Blu-ray. It is expected to be compatible with Toshiba's system.

Few publicly support a format war. Although most movie studios have now backed one format or another, they have not signed exclusive deals, leaving the way open for an agreement.

Anti-trust groups in the United States and elsewhere are likely to watch the battle carefully for signs of harm to the consumer. The VHS-Betamax battle harmed consumers, as those who bought Betamax were later forced to buy new machines once it became clear all new releases would be in VHS format.

Few in the industry are immune to the echoes of the older battle. Like Betamax, Sony's Blu-ray is widely considered to be better with greater storage capacity.
 
DVD as data storage is different to DVD as a movie viewing format
The first two to three years of dvd's life time there was no other reason to own a dvd rom drive besides watching movies.

Dvd recorders didn't come out till after 2000 , if i recall right the end of 2001 mabye early 2002 .

The main reason was to watch dvds .

This is from the US market, if we say it's going be exactly like that for HD, then there will be 7 Million HD players on the market when the PS3 is 2 years old, and there will be 10 million PS3 Blu-Ray players.

Then you have to add in the number of hd-dvd drives in computers or blu ray drives in computers .

Then you also have to figure that hd-dvd players may come out in 2005 and be affordable while the ps3 wont come out till 2006 . THen add in the fact that every company like dell will add in whatever drive is out at the time as the hot new reason to buy a pc .

the numbers may be very diffrent than what you say .

have no idea how many people that watch DVDs on the PC, do you?
I know that about 50% watch DVDs on their PS2.
According to who ? I will pull a number out of my ass. 99% of dvd rom owners watch dvds on thier pc .

You must be using something else that standard software DVD players, since their deinterlacing sucks

I tried venturing down that road , bought a Panasonic XP30 instead.
Heh back in the day progressive scan dvd players were extremely expensive. My dvd player on my pc look better than any dvd player out at the time . ANd it still looks very good compared to the top of the line dvd players .
 
jvd said:
The main reason was to watch dvds .

I will pull a number out of my ass. 99% of dvd rom owners watch dvds on thier pc .

I pulled it from here: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/news.php?aid=2135

Now about your ass, it would still be interesting to see some numbers on how many that used their PC for DVD playback?

Back then things were a bit different, playback from a DVD-Drive required a software player (wasn't free), and or software + a hardware decoder card. We are talking way back here. For a software player i would guess something like a P3 500 Mhz would be needed?

In February 1999 the Intel Pentium III CPU has been officially presented, available at 450 and 500 MHz of clock

Dunno how many that owned a DVD-Rom drive that could afford a CPU that could playback a DVD? I know i bought a Creative Encore kit (Drive + Mpeg2 decoder card) when i started my DVD collection. It lasted for 2 months then i bought a standalone.

And i would take a chance and say that HD-DVD+Blu-Ray drives will be selling slower than DVD-Drives among other things it will take some time before we will be able to see HD movies on our computers (fear of DeBLURAY?).
 

Styill out of your ass. It shows no numbers , How do i know they didn't get 10 people for the study ?

That's a fairly significant total; Centris estimates that it translates as 8.6 million PS2 owners (46.5 per cent of the installed base) in the USA, and 1.9 million Xbox owners (54 per cent of the installed base who own DVD kits).
They are estimating a total off a study in which we don't know what the sample pool is like

Back then things were a bit different, playback from a DVD-Drive required a software player (wasn't free), and or software + a hardware decoder card.

Right and mabye in 2010 the ps3 might help blu ray . But it wont be the reason blu ray becomes mass market unless blu ray in and of itself is a faliure .

For a software player i would guess something like a P3 500 Mhz would be needed?
my p2 300 with 512 megs of ram ran dvd movies jsut fine .



And i would take a chance and say that HD-DVD+Blu-Ray drives will be selling slower than DVD-Drives among other things it will take some time before we will be able to see HD movies on our computers (fear of DeBLURAY?).

No if anything the name hd-dvd will help hd-dvd sales start of stronger than dvds started off with . For a few reasons

1) Dvd is the name for movies now . Like nintendo was back in the 80s with video games .

2) people love thier extras .

3) those with hdtvs will jump on it .

4) You will be able to watch your dvds on it too


i know that all but 1 applys to blu ray . But hd-dvd seems set to make it to market first.
 
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