BR/HD-DVD Thread

[randycat99]

Give up the "resolution doesn't matter" argument Randy. It's bunk and a waste of time.

If you are just going to read every other word in a post, don't bother responding. Clearly, you have not picked up the meaning of my remarks. ...and yes, resolution does matter. That's why HD is not in such great shape as it stands now, once one peeks past the initial grandiose and hype.

 

[cthellis42]

As for BR/HD-DVD on consoles: If MS wants to ship Xenon in 2005 they should just go with DVD and restrict games to 9GB per disc. Then they can ship later Xenon units with whichever format wins the war (if at all), when manufacturing costs go down. I'm just not convinced that BR/HD-DVD will matter next-generation, given that the cost to produce games with more than 9GB of content (or 18GB for two discs for an extra 50 cents to produce) will be prohibitively expensive and the fact that most consumers won't have HDTVs until 2008 or later.

It's never really been a concern for Microsoft, though (aside from the possibility of frustrating some of their userbase with "Xbox 2 HD-only" games later in the generation) but for the HD-DVD companies. They don't want Blu-Ray to gain the unit sales and massive marketing boost just as the tech is starting to roll out unless they can claim a similar place alongside (or even beat them to market, which is why an Xbox 2 deal would be most advantageous). I'm sure they'd be happy to get in N5 as well, but I rather imagine Nintendo is going its own proprietary route again.

MS has the advantage of being able to respond to the market, but there's certainly going to be a big force trying to influence things before they get there.

 

[one]

Toshiba announced today it got HD-DVD support from 4 major Hollywood studios

* Paramount Pictures
* Universal Pictures
* Warner Bros. Studios
* New Line Cinema

Toshiba's HD-DVD player is expected in Q4 2005 under $1,000.

 

[PC-Engine]

Heh the announcement came sooner than I thought...

Disney and Fox should be on board pretty soon...

 

[Wunderchu]

Toshiba announced today it got HD-DVD support from 4 major Hollywood studios

* Paramount Pictures
* Universal Pictures
* Warner Bros. Studios
* New Line Cinema

Toshiba's HD-DVD player is expected in Q4 2005 under $1,000.

yup, I just noticed that news as well ..;

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/939740.cms

http://olympics.reuters.com/audi/newsArticle.jhtml?type=technologyNews&storyID=6940952

http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2004/Nov/1096898.htm




(found those links from here: http://news.google.ca/nwshp?gl=ca&ned=ca&topic=t )

 

[wco81]

Isn't Fox part of the BDA?

Disney is a big one.

 

[PC-Engine]

Isn't Fox part of the BDA?

Disney is a big one.

Fox joined the BDA to give input. They didn't say they'll support Blu-ray. Fox is also part of the DVD Forum and also gave input to the HD DVD spec.

Disney is still in negotiations...

 

[wco81]

BTW, the WSJ article noted that these deals aren't exclusive.

These studios (New Line is part of Warner?) would each release up to 24 titles by Xmas 2005 for HD-DVD while Blu-Ray players wouldn't be available until 2006. HD-DVD players would be "under $1000" for Xmas 2005.

The January CES should have close to production models rather than the prototypes shown in previous years. Since typically, the manufacturers show equipment that they plan to ship throughout the year.

 

[cthellis42]

As has been stated before, I expect all the players will be dipping their feet into both territories (excluding Sony/MGM who will try to leverage their support solely for Blu-Ray's benefit), as there's no absolute reason to go one way over the other, and every reason to watch how both sides play out, and how the consumers pick up the hardware. I also rather expect to see the media coming down on the "format war" in a way that will ultimately be more to their benefit.

 

[jarrod]

As has been stated before, I expect all the players will be dipping their feet into both territories (excluding Sony/MGM who will try to leverage their support solely for Blu-Ray's benefit),

Don't be so sure in regards to MGM, Sony only counts for $300 million of the $2 billion it took for the purchase. Those investment banks and Comcast want a return sooner rather than later I'd imagine... I doubt they'll be letting Sony leverage their own minority stake in the studio for some HD format war. If the market turns in HD-DVD's favor, so will MGM.

 

[Xenus]

The one advandtage blu-ray holds is its eight layer 200GB superdisk.

 

[wco81]

All the studios which just announced support for HD-DVD claim these aren't exclusive deals and that they are all still working with Blu-Ray.

However, Warner also said HD-DVD had clear advantages in "durability" and "reliability." Other studios noted the cost advantages (HD-DVD production will be easier to get going to deliver volume of discs for Xmas 2005 than BR).

Warner also owns patents in DVD and HD-DVD. So they have a vested interest in which format ultimately prospers.

Already, there is some talk about dual-format players by 2006 if the impasse isn't resolved. That would mean these studios release for one format while Columbia and MGM stays only on MGM.

That might mitigate the advantage of a Blu-Ray drive on the PS3. Then it might be smart for Nintendo or MS to offer a configuration with dual-format drives.

 

[cthellis42]

Don't be so sure in regards to MGM, Sony only counts for $300 million of the $2 billion it took for the purchase.

Wasn't the buyout more to the tune of $5 billion? Checking around, I see the $2 billion figure gets mentioned in regards to debt they had to assume with the deal, and $300 million being an amount Comcast would pay to acquire a 20% stake of MGM. (Also mentioned in the first article, but not the percentage.)

I'm not sure what percentage is Sony's and what its investment partners ( Provid-ence Equity Partners Inc., Texas Pacific Group and DLJ Merchant Banking Partners) but you seem to be mixing up your figures.

Meanwhile, Comcast won't get in the way (since their distribution desires are not physical) and as long as Sony won't be showing huge losses because of it... The investment partners would likely only use their muscle if Sony's going to get cause serious losses because of it (say, the equivalent of ATRAC-only support while MP3 has taken over), which means the "format war" will have already been decided. The rollout is going to be slow and that game played over the next few years, and I'm sure Sony would present to its partners the idea that using Sony/MGM as leverage to make Blu-Ray ultimately win out would be much more beneficial to them in the long run. I don't expect them to go with HD-DVD until there's no other choice.

 

[jarrod]

Don't be so sure in regards to MGM, Sony only counts for $300 million of the $2 billion it took for the purchase.

Wasn't the buyout more to the tune of $5 billion? Checking around, I see the $2 billion figure gets mentioned in regards to debt they had to assume with the deal, and $300 million being an amount Comcast would pay to acquire a 20% stake of MGM. (Also mentioned in the first article, but not the percentage.)

I'm not sure what percentage is Sony's and what its investment partners ( Provid-ence Equity Partners Inc., Texas Pacific Group and DLJ Merchant Banking Partners) but you seem to be mixing up your figures.

Whoops you're right, I did jumble the figures through memory.

Meanwhile, Comcast won't get in the way (since their distribution desires are not physical) and as long as Sony won't be showing huge losses because of it... The investment partners would likely only use their muscle if Sony's going to get cause serious losses because of it (say, the equivalent of ATRAC-only support while MP3 has taken over), which means the "format war" will have already been decided. The rollout is going to be slow and that game played over the next few years, and I'm sure Sony would present to its partners the idea that using Sony/MGM as leverage to make Blu-Ray ultimately win out would be much more beneficial to them in the long run. I don't expect them to go with HD-DVD until there's no other choice.

Not necessairily... these outside firms won't see any benefit either way if BD or HD-DVD become the industry favorite. What they'll likely want is to maximize their roi however quickly they can... also given the historical lack of cooperation in between Sony divisions (despite the recent synergy PR), I'm skeptical if MGM would even be willing to play politics here. While I do think it's safe to say MGM will be releasing BD content, I really don't see much compelling evidence they'll do so exclusively for HD formats. Hell, I'm not sure Sony Pictures will side exclusively with BD.

I say HD-DVD is more likely to see MGM releases than UMD anyway.

 

[wco81]

A hint of the political and economic machinations behind the decision by the studios to back HD-DVD:

Warner's announcement came as little surprise, since Time Warner holds some of the patents and copyrights behind the HD DVD format, along with Toshiba and others. In addition, the format was championed by former Warner Home Video president Warren Lieberfarb, now a consultant to Toshiba.




 






It's widely believed that Par and U were seeking cash and other incentives from both groups and that at least one of the uncommitted studios is still holding out for a more lucrative incentive. Insiders suggested that more than one studio was offered as much as $30 million, but the three studios involved in the announcements Monday say they did not receive any cash incentives.

One studio exec suggested that his studio did, however, receive a break on royalty fees. And according to one player close to the negotiations, Par and U almost certainly won either financial consideration or a change in the technology to their liking in order to make an early commitment.

Leveraging both sides

Many believe Fox and Disney are hoping to use the leverage of an undecided position to push both technologies to adopt features they prefer. Fox is currently working with the organizations developing both formats.

"Fox and Disney don't want to endorse a format until they have used up all of their political capital to influence it coming out the way they want," observed Paul Kocher, prexy of content protection company Cryptography Research.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...riety/20041129/va_tv_ne/billions_at_disc_risk

Yes it's a political world we live in and the technology with the most merit will not always win out...

 

[PC-Engine]

Well everyone knew Warner Bros was going to back HD DVD...well maybe except Vince, -tkf-, and Tsmit42, but Paramount and Universal? What HD DVD patents does Paramount and Universal own???

Simply put Paramount and Universal saw advantages in HD DVD over Blu-ray....it's called lower manufacturing costs. And I'm not just talking about media costs, I'm talking about hardware costs as well. Do you know why Panasonic and Sharp's BR recorders currently on the market uses TWO drives??? Yes drives not heads. Do you know whay SONY is considering dropping CD audio playback support in BR players??? Do you know why discs recorded using one machine can't be played back in the other machine???

 

[Ty]

What HD DVD patents does Paramount and Universal own???

Patents? Not sure, but the answer to the question you're implying (why did Paramount and Universal back HD-DVD?) is in the post above yours.

Par and U almost certainly won either financial consideration or a change in the technology to their liking in order to make an early commitment.

Maybe the change in technology lowered manufacturing costs?

 

[-tkf-]

Well everyone knew Warner Bros was going to back HD DVD...well maybe except Vince, -tkf-, and Tsmit42, but Paramount and Universal? What HD DVD patents does Paramount and Universal own???

I had no idea what and who were going to back HD-DVD

I'm certain that all these will back BLU-RAY as well, since doing anything else would be plain stupid.

But it's nice to know that the movie studioes are serious about HD given that there was a fear that they would be very slow with HD releases because of "Pirates".

 

[Spidermate]

The one advandtage blu-ray holds is its eight layer 200GB superdisk.

\

Actually, there's much, much more to it than that. That just happens to be the most political.

 

[jvd]

it would hvae been nice to see 500-800$ hd-dvd drivers this coming year , not this 1k crap