BR/HD-DVD Thread

[PC-Engine]

Heh I really like their approach though using red lasers instead of blue and still able to make massive gains in capacity. Maybe Xenon or Revolution will use this new technology.

 

[-tkf-]

Heh I really like their approach though using red lasers instead of blue and still able to make massive gains in capacity. Maybe Xenon or Revolution will use this new technology.

I could imagine Nintendo use it (they don't learn) but i couldn't see Microsoft letting go of a bulletpoint* on their console.

* HD Movie Support

 

[PC-Engine]

Heh I really like their approach though using red lasers instead of blue and still able to make massive gains in capacity. Maybe Xenon or Revolution will use this new technology.

I could imagine Nintendo use it (they don't learn) but i couldn't see Microsoft letting go of a bulletpoint* on their console.

* HD Movie Support

Well that assumption requires MS making different versions of Xenon like the rumors suggest. The highend version would include HD DVD movie playback.

Even if Nintendo uses this format for Revolution to save costs, it would still allow their console to play SD DVD movies if they use the larger 5" diameter DVD. So ultimately you pay less and Nintendo loses less on each console while still allowing DVD playback. It's a good compromise. Of course this is assuming Nintendo sells Revolution at a cheaper price than the competition.

 

[-tkf-]

Even if Nintendo uses this format for Revolution to save costs, it would still allow their console to play SD DVD movies if they use the larger 5" diameter DVD. So ultimately you pay less and Nintendo loses less on each console while still allowing DVD playback. It's a good compromise. Of course this is assuming Nintendo sells Revolution at a cheaper price than the competition.

It would still leave Nintendo with what could be considered a weaker console just because it can't do HD movies. But still, Nintendo may not have won this run based on number of consoles, but they are making money that might push them in the same direction again

 

[wco81]

20GB High-Def VMD disc launched

This HD media stuff is really getting out of hand.
Now, even low key startups want to fight the big fight with the big boys.

If they really had something, Microsoft would have been all over them, trying to get them to use WM. Or in the case of a small company, why not buy them out to own that IP?

A bunch of small players have made announcements but they're not demonstrating any prototypes or meeting with Hollywood or the manufacturers.

If these guys could really deliver the same or better specs. than blue laser for less costs, wouldn't the hardware and disc manufacturers have at least explored their technology by now?

All we have are announcements.

 

[Farid]

If these guys could really deliver the same or better specs. than blue laser for less costs, wouldn't the hardware and disc manufacturers have at least explored their technology by now?

All we have are announcements.

You're right, actually this kind of modus operandi is very common with what we once called the startups (That's also common in a lot of others businesses, BTW). They doing the big announcements first and then pray that investors start inject million dollars in their generaly ill-fated project.
And it seems, in this case, that they litteraly craving for money, since they did a press release in august because someone invested 1M dollars in their tech.

They would, indeed, need more than 1M to compet with Sony, Matsushita, HP, Dell, Thomson/RCA, Philips, NEC, etc...

There's also a lot of chances that they don't even have a working prototype as we speak.

 

[cthellis42]

I rather doubt it would go too far... I mean, who's left to push that in red laser that isn't already committed to blue? I can, however, see the company (and their patents) purchased by one party or another if the tech can be applied to their own... or perhaps to squelch it if it cannot, but roll methods of it into the next next-generation ROM's if it pans out.

 

[Vince]

EETimes[/url]]MANHASSET, N.Y. — Japan-based electronic companies Nichia Corp. and Sony Corp. unveiled the latest piece of their strategy to capture the optical disk market, developing a dual wavelength laser coupler that integrates red and blue-violet lasers together with a corresponding photo detector and lens and prism.

The coupler is a single integrated device with a 660-nm red laser for DVD playback and 405-nm blue-violet laser for optical disk playback. The companies expect that combining both functions in a single device will simplify the design of optical disk systems, allowing smaller and more reliable Blu-ray Disc (BD) players as well as HV-DVD players.

The prototype coupler measures 7.2 (H) x 13.5 (W) x 6.7 (D) mm. However, because existing couplers measure 6.5 mm deep for CD/DVD drives and 5 mm deep for 0.5-in. high slim-type drives, the companies expect to further shrink the coupler before it enters volume production in late 2005.

 

[wco81]

http://news.com.com/Hewlett-Packard..._3-5455018.html


News.com story stating that a year from now, HP plans to have BR drives in desktops and laptops.

The HP VP of storage said they chose BR over HD-DVD for storage and "interactive features." She said they also planned to help drive down prices by pushing volumes or economies of scale.

The story claims that Dell and HP turned the market tide for DVD+ formats by choosing those formats over the DVD- formats.

 

[cthellis42]

"turned the market tide?" Heck, I'm not actually sure which of those IS better off! They tend to be interchangable for most PC users regardless--mainly just making a difference for set-top DVD players (when they do play burns) and recorders. I tend to see more DVD- media on the shelves of Wal-Mart and warehouse stores, but I'm not sure if that actually means anything (and it's not like I'm keeping a strict tally.) Since everything generic and R or R/W is basically the same price anyway, it hardly seems to matter.

 

[PC-Engine]

Turning the tide hehe that was funny.

Most people buy -R/RW format DVDs because they know it can be played in 99% of DVD players without any hassle. With the +R/RW format you have to worry about your recorder bitsetting for those DVDs to play on other DVD players.

The only thing the +R/RW format has over the -R/RW format recently is the +R9 DL, but the -R DL will be coming out soon when the +R9 DL media comes down to mass market prices so that's not going to effect the + vs - battle not to mention that most people would rather have dual format burners for computers anyway because it gives them the choice of what media to buy.

Saying that DELL and HP contributed to turning the tide is just PR BS.

In addition, the prototype lacks an integrated infrared laser for CD disk. A Sony spokesperson said the company is now producing red/infrared dual wavelength lasers for PlayStation 2 and other products, but is undecided whether it would integrate a third laser into the coupler.

No CD playback? If it was trivial to add it would've been added I would think. What's the problem?

BTW what happened to the dynamically variable wavelength module that was talked about awhile back? Too expensive?

In one of its other unique features, Sharp has taken a current problem with Blu-ray Disc technology and turned it into a feature. The machine has twin slots on the front, one for Blu-ray Discs and one for DVDs. This allows copying of content, as long as it's not copy-protected, between a DVD, Blu-ray Disc, and the hard drive, says Nakayama.

While this multi-way copying is new, twin drives are not. Matsushita's recorder also has two optical drives inside it but they are hidden away behind a single slot. A complex loader mechanism sends discs to the appropriate drive and only allows one disc to be loaded at one time.

The arrangement is one of necessity because Blu-ray Disc and DVD are based on different color lasers, and drive heads that incorporate lasers for each format are yet to be commercialized. Sharp and Matsushita get around this issue by using two drives, while Sony uses a single drive with two read-heads.

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,118569,00.asp

Sounds sloppy...and expensive considering all this R&D money just to solve a fundamental problem of Blu-ray technolgy.

 

[wco81]

Gamespot has a piece on how new optical disc technology may affect next gen gaming consoles.

Regardless of what format Microsoft chooses, game developers will have to make good use of the extra storage space if either standard is to succeed. Julien Merseron, worldwide technical director for Ubisoft, said that a developer could use the extra space for everything from more-detailed textures and sound files to faster-loading redundant data. "It is not really the additional space that will lead to new gameplay experiences," Merseron said, "but [it] will allow us to add more details and objects into the levels, and that can lead to a better immersion." Merseron added that, while he "would tend to think that HD-DVD has a brighter future," both standards are equally viable from a technical and business standpoint.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/11/16/news_6113321.html

Lot of other good points about how Blu-Ray or HD-DVD may be helped by new consoles and vice versa, including the prospect of the PS3 helping to drive down BR costs, especially the production of the blue-laser diodes.

 

[London Geezer]

So, can i open a new thread to get a summary of the old news? cause so far, in 15 pages of stuff, i still have no idea what's going to happen...

 

[pc999]

Just on question what is pricier 2 HD-DVD or 1 BR

 

[wco81]

Just on question what is pricier 2 HD-DVD or 1 BR

What are you talking about, discs with movies on them?

Or recordable media?

Or player/recorders?

BR discs are expected to cost more to produce but not enough to justify a big difference in retail price.

BR recordable media will support up to two layers IIRC while HD-DVD recordable media is at one layer?

The hardware should be comparable, although BR at least is expected to be widely recorder units so there may be higher price because of that.

But there should not be any 2X price difference, except maybe with the recordable media, unless the BR companies are bent on killing their format.

 

[randycat99]

Anybody know what kind of resolution the new HD-disc format will bring? Ironically, I don't really care what color the laser will be that reads my HD-movie. What resolution and is there the possibility of anything higher than 24-bit color resolution can come from this, are two things which would seem to be far more important in an upcoming HD format, imo.

Will we really be getting more precise video in this new format or will the movie industry still ensure that all we get are severely cutdown/compromised renditions from their masters?

 

[wco81]

Supposedly both formats can support 1080p24 and 1080p30.

That's including extras and using MPEG2. Advocates of the newer codecs which are being included in both formats promise even more.

What the formats are capable of and what the studios actually produce may end up to be two different things.

 

[randycat99]

Hmmmm, a bit more than 2x what we have now. It sounds like a big improvement, but it doesn't really amount to much more considering the increase in size in video monitors. If you can imagine monitors twice the size of the standard when DVD's first came out, then we really wouldn't be enjoying higher definition. It is really just the same definition- just a much larger screen size. Is anybody following me on this?

30-bit color should be a real hoot, though (I hope they adapt a nonlinear mapping of 30-bit color- finer shade levels on the near-black region, greater saturation in the maximum levels, and about the same color increments through the middle level). Now if the movie industry could finally let go of their terribly arcane 24 fps standard, that would be groundbreaking.

 

[wco81]

Bit more than 2x?

DVD is only 480i or 720x480 interlaced.

1080p would be 1920x1080 progressive.

That's quite a lot more than "bit more than 2x."

 

[randycat99]

The final output is typically 480i, but as a data format, it is natively 480p. Spacially, 480 is 480, regardless of what letter follows it or how it arrives temporally. The only real difference is flickering on high contrast edges. Truly, this HD standard won't amount to much more definition on the large screen sizes of tomorrow, compared to the typical screen sizes we have had since DVD came out.