Blu-ray expects to reveal launch details CES 2006

[MechanizedDeath]

Until HVD gets some support, I don't see why it has once again made its way into another BD thread. This forum got closed once before b/c of this stupid trolling and bickering. HVD has nothing at all to do with the topic. FFS, stay on topic and stop trying to drive every thread into a lock. This isn't directed at all the posters on this forum, but it's becoming apparent who the trolls are, and who's still feeding them. I've fallen in love with the ignore function. It's just no effective when you keep quoting them. PEACE.

 

[drpepper]

I'm sorry but both bluray and hd-dvd are stop gaps and only exist for the companys that made them to make more money. If it was about giving consumers the best they would have waited another 2 or so years and start to roll out the vastly superior format hvd

I agree that these two formats (BD & HDDVD) seem to be more of a "transition" format into HVD. But to tell people to wait the extra 2 years will ultimately result in a decrease in the adoption rate of HDTVs, or at least delay it until HVD becomes mainstream. The CRTC, IIRC, mandated that 2/3 of the digital television signals will soon have to be at HD by 2008, I believe the US also have this requirement. I have no link though...

If the adoption rates are too slow/delayed then I believe that the price for HDTVs will still be out of reach for many potential customers. And I hardly believe the PS3 and X360 alone can increase demand for an HDTV. Film content, IMO, is still a large reason why people have home theatre setups.

This is why I think it's still important to get Blu-Ray/HDDVD out the door ASAP.

My 2 Canadian cents.

 

[mckmas8808]

I agree that these two formats (BD & HDDVD) seem to be more of a "transition" format into HVD. But to tell people to wait the extra 2 years will ultimately result in a decrease in the adoption rate of HDTVs, or at least delay it until HVD becomes mainstream. The CRTC, IIRC, mandated that 2/3 of the digital television signals will soon have to be at HD by 2008, I believe the US also have this requirement. I have no link though...

If the adoption rates are too slow/delayed then I believe that the price for HDTVs will still be out of reach for many potential customers. And I hardly believe the PS3 and X360 alone can increase demand for an HDTV. Film content, IMO, is still a large reason why people have home theatre setups.

This is why I think it's still important to get Blu-Ray/HDDVD out the door ASAP.

My 2 Canadian cents.

Your two Canadian cents are the best cents that I've ever had.

Thanks.

 

[jvd]

I agree that these two formats (BD & HDDVD) seem to be more of a "transition" format into HVD. But to tell people to wait the extra 2 years will ultimately result in a decrease in the adoption rate of HDTVs, or at least delay it until HVD becomes mainstream. The CRTC, IIRC, mandated that 2/3 of the digital television signals will soon have to be at HD by 2008, I believe the US also have this requirement. I have no link though...

If the adoption rates are too slow/delayed then I believe that the price for HDTVs will still be out of reach for many potential customers. And I hardly believe the PS3 and X360 alone can increase demand for an HDTV. Film content, IMO, is still a large reason why people have home theatre setups.

This is why I think it's still important to get Blu-Ray/HDDVD out the door ASAP.

My 2 Canadian cents.

Many users have yet to experiance full quality dvd res .

So there is an upgrade for many just using a dvd player on a hdtv .

Then couple that with increased high def channels and programing and new video games systems will give enough content .

Many people wont be running out to buy a bluray player and new content for a bluray player in the next year or two . Not only that but high quality hd-tvs are still in the minority and will not hit large penetration numbers untill the prices come down more than the content avalible

 

[mckmas8808]

Many users have yet to experiance full quality dvd res .

So there is an upgrade for many just using a dvd player on a hdtv .

Then couple that with increased high def channels and programing and new video games systems will give enough content .

Many people wont be running out to buy a bluray player and new content for a bluray player in the next year or two . Not only that but high quality hd-tvs are still in the minority and will not hit large penetration numbers untill the prices come down more than the content avalible

So explain how HVD players will sell more than lower priced Blu-ray players in the next few years. Why should I buy a HVD player as the customer?

 

[jvd]

So explain how HVD players will sell more than lower priced Blu-ray players in the next few years. Why should I buy a HVD player as the customer?

WHo said anything about selling more ?

Do you even read others posts ?

I'm saying hvd is a better optical disc format and is a better solution for all users .

Bluray is a stop gap. I doesn't matter if titles hit for bluray next year , it is still infior to what hvd is capable of .

Bluray and hd-dvd is just a way for those companys to make money on consumers instead of offering us the best that is avalible in the near future

 

[mckmas8808]

WHo said anything about selling more ?

Do you even read others posts ?

I'm saying hvd is a better optical disc format and is a better solution for all users .

Bluray is a stop gap. I doesn't matter if titles hit for bluray next year , it is still infior to what hvd is capable of .

Bluray and hd-dvd is just a way for those companys to make money on consumers instead of offering us the best that is avalible in the near future

Betamax was better than VHS, but what happened? In this game you need more than just pure specs.

 

[drpepper]

So explain how HVD players will sell more than lower priced Blu-ray players in the next few years. Why should I buy a HVD player as the customer?

Yes, that's another point I failed to touch. By the time HVD becomes mainstream, its only market in the entertainment industry will be to have the entire Star Trek: The Next Generation Series held on one disc. Aside from that Blu-Ray/HDDVD will fill the other markets quite nicely (Which is much larger), and cheaply at that by the time HVD comes along. When people finally get their high def players to play their HD movies, I don't think they'll put up with another format that's probably going to be ~1000$ and only marginally improved than Blu-Ray/HDDVD in terms of HD movie.

I see HVD initially as a high density mass storage format.

 

[jvd]

Betamax was better than VHS, but what happened? In this game you need more than just pure specs.

Your right. So i guess we agree that hd-dvd will do better than bluray .

 

[mckmas8808]

Your right. So i guess we agree that hd-dvd will do better than bluray .

It's more complicated than that. My point was just specs alone will not give anyone victory. Just saying things like HVD will have 1 Terabyte of space will not mean HVD is the future. There are alot of factors that creates a certain generation movie media. Things like price and adoption rate are two of many.

 

[drpepper]

Your right. So i guess we agree that hd-dvd will do better than bluray .

That contradicts your sentiment wrt HVD.

 

[Bobbler]

I'm saying hvd is a better optical disc format and is a better solution for all users.

I fully agree with this, I was just trying to explain that to think that HVD will succeed purely on its merits as a format is a bit silly at this point (and I can't remember if you explicitly said that, but I know its been said by someone, somewhere) -- it has nothing going for it outside of being a storage (backup) format, and it would rock at that. If HVD was able to be pushed out the door when BR/HDDVD could be then I'd be full on supporting it (and anyone would be an idiot not to -- that goes for companies too), but 1-2 years from now is a long wait to get HD movies (as the canadian with his two cents mentioned). HVD, I think, will have some success as a backup storage format and possibly in next next-gen consoles (if we haven't already adopted a download+hdd service in lieu of a disc format), but not as a replacement for BR.

Consumers are usually too dumb and unorganized to flex their muscle and get what they want. BR will succeed because the companies behind it already have chosen that for us (which is fine for me, it looks to be the best overall of what our current choices are).

 

[jvd]

fully agree with this, I was just trying to explain that to think that HVD will succeed purely on its merits as a format is a bit silly at this point (and I can't remember if you explicitly said that, but I know its been said by someone, somewhere

I have said from the start that it is a better format and should have been waited for . Even if it takes 2-4 years for it to be mass produced it will still be above and beyond what bluray offers us

I'm sorry but 300 gigs is alot better than 30 gigs per single layer .

The speed rates are also much much better .

it has nothing going for it outside of being a storage (backup) format, and it would rock at that

transfer rates are a very big deal . You can also put higher quality video on the disc.

As i've said before all the benfits bluray has over dvd , hvd has over bluray and hvd should be cheap by the end of the decade not even 5 years from now . It will be on blurays heals buch sooner than bluray was on dvds heals and make no mistake once its introduced in the pc sector usrs will start to buy it up quickly and home players will follow suit even if movie studios are slow to back it .

HVD, I think, will have some success as a backup storage format and possibly in next next-gen consoles (if we haven't already adopted a download+hdd service in lieu of a disc format), but not as a replacement for BR.

Consumers are usually too dumb and unorganized to flex their muscle and get what they want. BR will succeed because the companies behind it already have chosen that for us (which is fine for me, it looks to be the best overall of what our current choices are).

It will have much more sucess than that .

You don't give users enough credit. Even the stupid masses will see that 1 hvd disc for all the seasons of friends at 1080p is better than 10 discs on bluray .

Its the same reason why people will move from dvd to bluray or hd dvd eventualy . . The only problem is that now toshiba and sony are trying to squeeze an extra format in there .



AS I've siad bluray and hd-dvd should never have been though of .

Not only that but if both of these formats make it to the market then hvd will have a much easier way of making headway
ALso lets not forget that verizon is getting ready to roll out fiber and cablevision and other cable companys are doubling the modem speeds to compete over the coming year. Which wil allow users to download even more crap to thier computers faster than ever before .

Bluray and hd-dvd will have a veryl imited life and thier usefullness will come to an end far quicker than dvds .

 

[gokickrocks]

http://www.i4u.com/article3615.html
...30GB HVC (its a card instead of a disc) for 90cents with the drive costing 1800...
this seems more viable, however storage space is a bit limited, plus it looks cool

 

[jvd]

http://www.i4u.com/article3615.html
...30GB HVC (its a card instead of a disc) for 90cents with the drive costing 1800...
this seems more viable, however storage space is a bit limited, plus it looks cool

aye its the size of a credit card and holds the same as a single layer bluray disc

IMagine a nice camcorder with that set up. Just slip in a new card and off you go .

Or an ipod type device where all you do is change the card . Each one holding 30 gigs of music or video .

 

[dubyateeeff]

Why no hype for this? Because it's not Sony?

Notice that this is the console forum and that we arent in a thread about next-gen (PS4, X3) media.

 

[Bobbler]

There really wasn't choice to wait, as far as content companies, hdtv makers, etc were concerned -- a format had to be ready asap. Waiting for another two years may have been ideal in one way, but certainly not in all ways -- we may have gotten a better format overall (which is really moot, BR is plenty capable of storing a full movie at HD resolutions -- so a bigger format is sort of pointless for that market, and games will have a pretty hard time filling it, so its quite sufficient there). HVD's initial transfer rates are nice, but for most things the wait for 1-2 years for that is silly (it's likely that BR's transfer rates will be comparable by the time HVD comes out)

It's entirely up to the content companies to put out content on HVD (that's why I say consumers don't have much of a choice), and at the moment there is no reason to do so -- putting more content on a single disc doesn't really matter (most people I bet feel like they'd be getting more out of a season of friends if they had it over several discs -- consumers are silly that way). Sure they could do it, but who is going to? Is there any plans for HVD as a video format? is there any plans to make CE HVD players that hook to the tv? Without content who is going to make a player, and who is going to buy those players? HVD is dead for anything but backup storage at the moment. You seem to be under the impression that if HVD comes out content companies will automagically start putting content on it and consumers will flock to it -- but consumers need to flock to it before content companies start putting content on it (especially in this case where 1(2) format(s) will be out and well established by the time HVD comes out). So, I'm not sure why you would assume it will have any success outside of a backup storage format -- at the moment there is no reason to believe any content at all will be released for it.

You seem to forgot all the politics that happen around a business/industry -- companies don't just blindly go arbitrarily supporting whatever is new and shiny without regard to who they are doing business to and what the business advantages are of doing such a thing and who else is supporting it, etc, etc. You are making the false assumption that upon HVD's release content will be out for it and users will flock to it after, completely ignoring the fact that HVD really offers nothing in terms of video quality difference (besides allowing a full season on a disc, a marginal advantage) and users just don't need 300gb discs -- DVDs are more than enough for a vast majority of peoples storage needs for the next few years still. As PC-Engine loves to say, HVD is a solution looking for a problem at the moment -- it doesn't really offer a compelling amount better where it needs to (for the current market -- the massive storage increase would be squandered for the next 10 years probably). HVD is a format for the future, but there really isn't an advantage in using it right now -- I bet you'd be hard pressed to fill up a disc (unless you were trying to just to prove a point), let alone go through the stacks of them the disc makers want you to. The day we get SHDTV (super) at resolutions like 4kx2k or above will be the day HVD or a format like it gets big (this is again assuming we haven't adopted a full out broadband physical-format-less era). The only reason BR was superior to begin with is it had more support from the get go and offered a better capacity when it mattered -- 15gb to 25gb can possibly make a difference for movies (probably not a noticeable difference depending on the codec used), but 25gb to 300gb at 1080p isn't going to offer an appreciable difference because ~25gb allows for 2hrs of 1080p even with the worst compression codec (mpeg2).

I don't really know how to make it more clear, but HVD does not offer anyone a compelling reason to use it, especially considering the complete lack of support. If HVD had the support behind it that BR/HD-DVD did, and was available now, it would be a different story (it would still be too much too soon, but at least there would be no wait and there would be content out on it).

 

[mckmas8808]

make no mistake once its introduced in the pc sector usrs will start to buy it up quickly and home players will follow suit even if movie studios are slow to back it .

Huh? And what movies will people watch on these home players?

 

[AlphaWolf]

Huh? And what movies will people watch on these home players?

If you build it, they will come.

 

[drpepper]

If you build it, they will come.

It would be a poor strategy for a format though if the player comes out before there's any titles to support it.