Blu-ray and ps3.

[jvd]

No market for blueray ? heh. Thats why tivos are selling as well as they are at 500 bucks. A blueray player which is supior to the tvs for the simply fact that you can use multi discs instead of the limits of the hardrive wont be able to take over that market and then expand it ? Of course there is a market. If there wasn't a market we wouldn't be talking about it

touche'

Notafanb you will never see me on here claiming i know everything . I normaly ask more questions at this site than ican ever answer. But i don't open my mouth unless i know what i'm talking about

 

[nonamer]

Hey nonamer since you like to discuss alternative mass storage optical disk technologies, here's something you might be interested in. 8)

Unlike other recent advances in optical storage that require the use of blue lasers, the 100GB disc developed by the NTU team works with the read-write heads found in CD and DVD players that employ red lasers, which have a longer wavelength than blue lasers.

The 100GB disc is expected to become commercially available in 2004, when applications such as high-definition TV will create demand for larger storage capacities, said Din Ping Tsai, the professor at NTU who led the research team, in an interview.

http://www.computerworld.com/hardwaretopics/storage/story/0,10801,71469,00.html

I believe one of my links to the holographic disc made a reference to this, but it was unclear. Anyhow, yes, there are probably many different kinds of optical data storage technologies out there, and this is another. I guess you learn something every day. Instead of just one product that is supposedly destined to be the future, we may see instead a flurry of different competing ones. Perhaps BR is not a surefire bet.

PS: If you want to read up on ridiculously huge data storage technologies, go here: http://www.colossalstorage.net/ Some of that stuff is

 

[notAFanB]

now that you mention it what I really want to know is can TIVO survive as we move onto BR/DVDR or not?[/quote]

 

[jvd]

now that you mention it what I really want to know is can TIVO survive as we move onto BR/DVDR or not?

[/quote]

I think it will survive . It has alot of features that i don't see blueray and dvdr equaling. Like fast fowarding while recording . You can also record while watching something that is recorded already.

 

[MfA]

Either those guys are completely clueless or they are shoveling manure

Tsai said his prototype is ready to hit the market today, but Wang doubts the market is ready. The disc may be capable of recording dozens of Star Trek episodes, but there aren’t any drives available to utilise it and no one is working on one. Such systems would also require a new chip set. "Today’s technology still has a ways to go before this is needed," Wang said.

If all the drives need is an upgrade of the tracking mechanism and speed control then all they need to do is start manufacturing those discs ... the drives would come soon enough, and the PC market would lap up both.

Hell for DVD/CD combo drives it should just be a firmware upgrade as they said .... hard to comprehend they are not just shipping this shit.

 

[Panajev2001a]

You can also record while watching something that is recorded already

Blu-Ray does this too...

 

[notAFanB]

You can also record while watching something that is recorded already

Blu-Ray does this too...

doesn't this depend on implementation?

 

[jvd]

You can also record while watching something that is recorded already

Blu-Ray does this too...

Does it ? I did not know that . Thanks for letting me know .
But just to make sure i'm talking about . If you have simpsons recorded and your currently recording king of the hill you can watch the simpsons while its recording king of the hill. The blue ray can do that ? How so. Wont the laser be busy writing or does it use two lasers . one for writing one for reading ?

 

[Panajev2001a]

It could be buffering data both ways ( prefetching aggressively the stream you are playing and buffering the incoming MPEG2 stream ) and alternate the laser between the two streams...

 

[Panajev2001a]

You can also record while watching something that is recorded already

Blu-Ray does this too...

doesn't this depend on implementation?

This capability was in the minds of those who designed the file-system apparently

 

[jvd]

thanks for the info

 

[chaphack]

What has been said has been said, but i advice all Sony people to keep their expectations lowered. Sony has no pitless $banks or at least having the large amount of disposable M$ca$h.

BR, Tivo, REYES, Pixels for Polygons CELL, XDRAM, SoNET, $299 and all the dreamy dreams specs.....i have a bad feeling about this..something tells me Sony might fall big time, overly ambitiously bad.

As a graphics whore i would love Sony to blow me off with the PS3 but the law of videogame nature maketh me look for either a very norminal but overly hyped PS3, or a overblown overbloated overpriced doom3D for failure PS3.

We shall see then.

 

[Vince]

What has been said has been said, but i advice all Sony people to keep their expectations lowered. Sony has no pitless $banks or at least having the large amount of disposable M$ca$h.

Actually, I thought Sony Corp has more actual cash than Microsoft (eg. not counting short-term, liquid investments)

 

[chaphack]

M$ can lose millions on Xbox but makes an overall profit, while Sony Corp depends, what 40-60%, on the PS sales. Sony current financial is the doldrums too.

PS is obviously Sony's big pie, they can spend big, take the big risk and hope for big returns(or big BOOOM!!!). Or they can just play safe and do just what is needed to keep themselves alive.

 

[PC-Engine]

Either those guys are completely clueless or they are shoveling manure

Tsai said his prototype is ready to hit the market today, but Wang doubts the market is ready. The disc may be capable of recording dozens of Star Trek episodes, but there aren’t any drives available to utilise it and no one is working on one. Such systems would also require a new chip set. "Today’s technology still has a ways to go before this is needed," Wang said.

If all the drives need is an upgrade of the tracking mechanism and speed control then all they need to do is start manufacturing those discs ... the drives would come soon enough, and the PC market would lap up both.

Hell for DVD/CD combo drives it should just be a firmware upgrade as they said .... hard to comprehend they are not just shipping this shit.

Here's a more in depth article.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/archives/2002/07/29/0000158161

 

[MfA]

It still doesnt explain how a product which they should be able to sell at a hefty profit today isnt.

 

[notAFanB]

As a graphics whore i would love Sony to blow me off with the PS3 but the law of videogame nature maketh me look for either a very norminal but overly hyped PS3, or a overblown overbloated overpriced doom3D for failure PS3.

We shall see then.

then prepare to be woefully disapointed.

 

[jvd]

What has been said has been said, but i advice all Sony people to keep their expectations lowered. Sony has no pitless $banks or at least having the large amount of disposable M$ca$h.

BR, Tivo, REYES, Pixels for Polygons CELL, XDRAM, SoNET, $299 and all the dreamy dreams specs.....i have a bad feeling about this..something tells me Sony might fall big time, overly ambitiously bad.

As a graphics whore i would love Sony to blow me off with the PS3 but the law of videogame nature maketh me look for either a very norminal but overly hyped PS3, or a overblown overbloated overpriced doom3D for failure PS3.

We shall see then.

chap i have no clue what you said here . Please post in full english no internet slang and also make sense. Otherwise i will start deleteing your posts again .

 

[London Geezer]

Otherwise i will start deleteing your posts again .

again

can u blame me for the signature i had? i know it was a bit over the top, but in a joking way

 

[function]

The precise manufacturing price of BR right now isn't actually the point, just the notion that it's currently far, far too expensive to include in a mass market games console, and that some people doubt it will drop to such a level by the end of 2005.

I'm dismissive because people are posting things like this... I can't understand it, literally. I'm trying hard here - it's just so illogical and ignorant.

What your saying is that the actual material costs are irrelevent and that the MSRP of a bleeding-edge technology isin anyway related to the cost that will exist in two years when the commodity aspect wears off and there is a manufacturing/price war.

Are you going to tell me what the inflated cost of a 3.2Ghz Pentium4 (which is a commodity at this point) is in someway related to the manufacturing costs or the ability for the cost to scale down with increasing economies of scale? Because thats what you're saying...

It's insane.

I happen to think that retail prices are useful indicators of the technology that might be integrated into consoles in the future. Looking at the path that CD drives and DVD drives have taken to console integration, it appears (to me) that Sony would struggle to get BR down to an acceptable price by 2005.

OMG! XBox Next is screwed! The Pentium4 3.2Ghz is like $700 itself!! Can you imagine if they used this (or higher) in the XBox? It's never going to drop to the sub-$100 range if this keeps up! Thats like $400 of loss just on teh CPU!

It's a commodity at this point, get this into your head.

The principles of economies of scales were, of course, relevant in the 80's and 90's too when CD and DVD drives were increasing in popularity.

Exactly, and look at the extravgent initial prices that drop like a rock at the first hint of competition.

Edited - I need to get used to the tone of internet debates again!

What your saying is that the actual material costs are irrelevent and that the MSRP of a bleeding-edge technology isin anyway related to the cost that will exist in two years when the commodity aspect wears off and there is a manufacturing/price war.

... no, I never said that the material costs are irrelevant. Or that the commodity aspect was irrelevant.

[Regarding CDs and DVDs]Exactly, and look at the extravgent initial prices that drop like a rock at the first hint of competition.

And using those examples, as we are, the rate at which BR costs would have to drop is much greater than for previous examples of optical storage. Which may happen, I just personally doubt it will be fast enough.

OMG! XBox Next is screwed! The Pentium4 3.2Ghz is like $700 itself!! Can you imagine if they used this (or higher) in the XBox? It's never going to drop to the sub-$100 range if this keeps up! Thats like $400 of loss just on teh CPU!

I don't think that the model for price drops in processors can necesserily be directly applied to all other areas of computer technology; in this case optical storage.

When people disagree with you Vince (e.g. I doubt BR will be in PS3, you insist it will be), it isn't necesserily because they are unable to comprehend the same concepts as you. They might just have come to a different conclusion.

As I said before, the issues of design compromise (which includes the role that Sony actually want the standard PS3 to play) and the potential benefits of BR to games (balanced against alternatives) are more interesting to me, but that seems to be an entirely different discussion.