Bitboys and 'Graphics hardware for handheld devices'
- Thread starter Nappe1
- Start date
well, I lift off the curtain a bit and leave you here to believe whatever you wanted to believe.
so next things coming aren't official word, these are, well... let's say that these are what I have been hearing from different sources and picked up parts that fits to the puzzle.
these were long enough to get quoted by someone...
now take the blue pill and go back to wondering how fast that R300 is and why on earth NV30 isn't out yet.
As being almost completely broke right now, I have no choice than continue waiting. I hope you are having fun with DX8 hardware, but I am going to skip it.
EDIT: it looks like I am a having bad day, as last two years...
so next things coming aren't official word, these are, well... let's say that these are what I have been hearing from different sources and picked up parts that fits to the puzzle.
these were long enough to get quoted by someone...
now take the blue pill and go back to wondering how fast that R300 is and why on earth NV30 isn't out yet.
As being almost completely broke right now, I have no choice than continue waiting. I hope you are having fun with DX8 hardware, but I am going to skip it.
EDIT: it looks like I am a having bad day, as last two years...
XBA isn't a chip name! it's the memory and memory subsystem controller!
( how the hell anything can be obious if you don't what tha hell you are talking about...)
oh well, I go and buy on of those "Cross Bar Memory Controller" -chip based cards...
moderators, please be kind and close this thread. I would do it myself, but suprisngly I don't have rights to do that. It is useless having bashing threads on the boards like this. (otherwise I am forced to delete all my posts.)
( how the hell anything can be obious if you don't what tha hell you are talking about...)
oh well, I go and buy on of those "Cross Bar Memory Controller" -chip based cards...
moderators, please be kind and close this thread. I would do it myself, but suprisngly I don't have rights to do that. It is useless having bashing threads on the boards like this. (otherwise I am forced to delete all my posts.)
Typedef Enum
Regular
Come on Dave...How can you honestly proclaim that? (assuming you're contending that XBA will surface in the future).
The future of the BitBoys is about as certain as predicting the stock market. Think about this for a second...We're now into .13u technology, and nobody else seems to think eDRAM is viable. The original Glaze3D was supposed to be designed around .22u, if my memory serves me correct...The next iteration was supposed to (depending on who you talk to) be designed around .17u. We've already blown past .15u, and .09/.10u is already under development. At what point will the BitBoys finally be able to pull it off? Even if they did, what do you think ATI/nVidia will have by that point in time?
It shall be interesting to see the responses from Gary on some of these issues.
The future of the BitBoys is about as certain as predicting the stock market. Think about this for a second...We're now into .13u technology, and nobody else seems to think eDRAM is viable. The original Glaze3D was supposed to be designed around .22u, if my memory serves me correct...The next iteration was supposed to (depending on who you talk to) be designed around .17u. We've already blown past .15u, and .09/.10u is already under development. At what point will the BitBoys finally be able to pull it off? Even if they did, what do you think ATI/nVidia will have by that point in time?
It shall be interesting to see the responses from Gary on some of these issues.
During our last discussion of BBs technology ( http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=942 ) one thing that was brought up is that BBs design have always overly ambitious considering the number of transistors involved and the manufacturing process available. Of course. this is based entirely of the publicly available information - perhaps had a different design with less RAM and better manufacturing process guarantees then they were telling the public.
look, lets do some simple math here: glaze3d called for 9MB of integrated RAM. At best, you get 1 Transistor per bit, so
1024x1024x8x9 = over 75 Million Transistors for RAM alone. Now, they were targeting, IIRC DX7 hardware specs withouth a TnL unit... and a hefty memory controller. So 20-30 Million Transistors for logic and memory controller, as well as AGP interface, and your at around 95-105 Million Transistors. Infineons best eDRAM process, is IIRC, .17 micron.
So, do you honestly think anyone could have released a chip that big? In today's day and age, they would need a DX8 class accelerator, and they could at best leave the vertex shader off the chip and let the CPU do it, a la xabre. Xabre has 24 million transistors (pretty tiny), so its an easy assumption to make that any 4 Pipeline architecture for DX8 will have a tough time being under 20 million transistors.
1024x1024x8x9 = over 75 Million Transistors for RAM alone. Now, they were targeting, IIRC DX7 hardware specs withouth a TnL unit... and a hefty memory controller. So 20-30 Million Transistors for logic and memory controller, as well as AGP interface, and your at around 95-105 Million Transistors. Infineons best eDRAM process, is IIRC, .17 micron.
So, do you honestly think anyone could have released a chip that big? In today's day and age, they would need a DX8 class accelerator, and they could at best leave the vertex shader off the chip and let the CPU do it, a la xabre. Xabre has 24 million transistors (pretty tiny), so its an easy assumption to make that any 4 Pipeline architecture for DX8 will have a tough time being under 20 million transistors.
Typedef Enum
Regular
I was close (going by memory...and we're talking 3 years ago!)...The original Glaze3D was, according to an interview with the BB's, to be manufactured on a .20u process, and the die was to be 130 mm2.
Simon, I don't know if you're the right guy, but supposing an SoC company wanted to get into video (a la DVD, VCD, MPEG4), what would the MBX do for that company?
Do you have any numbers on silicon size, or power consumption?
Similarly, what about META?
If you'd rather not talk in public, pm me (other people might be interested in the silicon size, etc. for trivia's sake).
I'd be appreciative.
Do you have any numbers on silicon size, or power consumption?
Similarly, what about META?
If you'd rather not talk in public, pm me (other people might be interested in the silicon size, etc. for trivia's sake).
I'd be appreciative.
I'm sure you'll understand if I just give a link to the public docs: (I think this mentions the approximate size and power consumption.) MBX InfoRussSchultz said:
Soc and Multimedia are mentioned here: SOC info
META's a CPU (with fancy built-in dynamic multi-threading) so it can be used for numerous decoding tasks. I assume that the Metagence site will have public details.
Thanks for the info. I had to read closely to find the size and power information in that press release. (oopies)
Alas, 6mm^2 in .13 is kinda big for our application. Maybe the MBX light is more in line with our needs.
Oh well, I'll send an email to the licensing folks and see whatever other information I can glean from them.
Alas, 6mm^2 in .13 is kinda big for our application. Maybe the MBX light is more in line with our needs.
Oh well, I'll send an email to the licensing folks and see whatever other information I can glean from them.
G
Guest
Guest
Almost every1 is saying BB is crap can't deliver yadayadayada.......
things along those linez.......
Honestly I can't blame you cause there haven't a hardware piece out for us to buy and stick in our pc........ for a really long time.......
But patience and you see I was right all along and actually so is Nappe
And if you think I just talking...... every prediction/info I posted has come true just like I said...
So you may think whatever you want ........... the truth is out there but peeps these days are blind and can't think for themselves
ATI is King and nv30 can't beat it on most points
things along those linez.......
Honestly I can't blame you cause there haven't a hardware piece out for us to buy and stick in our pc........ for a really long time.......
But patience and you see I was right all along and actually so is Nappe
And if you think I just talking...... every prediction/info I posted has come true just like I said...
So you may think whatever you want ........... the truth is out there but peeps these days are blind and can't think for themselves
ATI is King and nv30 can't beat it on most points
My eyes Glazed over as I read this post - this is so Surreal,
Get ready for My Batphone beats your NV30 playing Doom 3 hype.
BitBoys - the greatest ever failure to deliver on a promised major revolution right on the eve of producing final Silicon (they said 2 years ago). http://www.bitboys.fi/xba.html
I thought they'd given up and gone into Vegatative computing or something (more likely smoking it).
Bitboys - I cry, I laugh, I grin manically - here we go again.....
over as I read this post - this is so Surreal,Get ready for My Batphone beats your NV30 playing Doom 3 hype.
BitBoys - the greatest ever failure to deliver on a promised major revolution right on the eve of producing final Silicon (they said 2 years ago). http://www.bitboys.fi/xba.html
I thought they'd given up and gone into Vegatative computing or something (more likely smoking it).
Bitboys - I cry, I laugh, I grin manically - here we go again.....
multigl2 said:
Don't think in terms of transistors. DRAM uses capacitors (this is actually at the heart of the problem...the different manufacturing processes really make it hard to meld them together...but I feel it is coming, eventually).
Think of it this way...consider the size of the RAM chips on a DIMM. I believe that 256MB DIMMs were out even when the Bitboys first talked about their Glaze3D. Just to be safe, I'll talk about 128MB DIMMs. With 16 chips (eight on each side), a 128MB DIMM would have 8MB of data. If you look at the size of these chips, they're quite a bit smaller than CPUs. This certainly doesn't meld with one transistor per bit, as that would be 64 million transistors.
Similar threads
