Best receiver for PS3 et al

[Mize]

Denon is a brand that I have had very good experiences with. Their model in this price/feature range is the AVR-1909.

I currently own this one and am completely happy with it and my first Denon receiver is now over 10 years old and still completely functional.

I have the 2809 and like it very much. My first Denon amp blew out one side of the amp when my now ex-wife ran it at full volume through my ADS 4 Ohm speaks all day while I was gone. It was 13 years old at the time. Funny how that happens. I also have my 360 and ps3 going through an HDMI switch as my cable is HDMI too.

 

[archie4oz]

I use a Sony STR-DA5300ES which passes all inputs over hdmi. It also has 6 hdmi inputs which is reeeeeally convenient. Sounds good also. It does cost more though, but the Sony ES line seems to be well received by audio reviewers. I believe it has since been replaced with the STR-DA5400ES.

Nice... I just got off my ass this past weekend and finally unboxed my 6400ES and hooked it up.

 

[Arwin]

I use a Sony STR-DA5300ES which passes all inputs over hdmi. It also has 6 hdmi inputs which is reeeeeally convenient. Sounds good also. It does cost more though, but the Sony ES line seems to be well received by audio reviewers. I believe it has since been replaced with the STR-DA5400ES.

That DA5400ES looks worlds of cool, but best price I've seen is 1400 Euro so its definitely out.

Thanks guys for telling me what I feared about the 520 - that one seems to be out definitely.

That leaves the 606 and the 820. The 606's capability to output analog over HDMI is a plus, but not one that I currently need, and I might very well never need it - worst case I can still plug in Component. Still, I can see this is a big plus on the 606's side. Also, the 606's backside seems more generous, with s-video options for most input types as well as the option for an analog 7.1 input, which is not available on the 820.

On the minus side, I do not like reading about the 606's heat and power consumption. It appears to be twice that of the 820, which is a big downer for me. Could very well be that this is partly caused by things like analog to digital upconversion, but my old amp was already prone to overheating under certain conditions (good self protect system though) and electricity is expensive. This for an amp that's almost twice the weight of the Sony (15kg vs 8kg?) makes me wonder.

From the various reviews I've tracked down across the web, the 820 seems to score pretty well on most counts otherwise, but so far for me it's a tough choice now. I also found the 820 for 324 Euro inc tax and shipping, vs about just under 400 Euro for the 606. That might not matter too much though, but still.

The heat/power thing is definitely something important to me and I'd like more information on it.

 

[DrJay24]

Anyone know if these receivers have issues with a HDMI->DVI going from the receiver to the HDTV?

Arwin, the 820 is looking pretty good on my end too, I could run a component and it's only $320 on Amazon... but my old DA4ES is working fine, damn

 

[Arwin]

Yeah, I'm becoming an expert on both of these amps and the 820 (or any of the Sony series) will fail when using HDMI->DVI in that situation. The HDCP handshaking that the Sony amps perform fails because the DVI does not support Audio. Apparently this causes the Sony amp series to consider the device as a copy device from then on, and from there the amp no longer plays back any sound. At least this was the explanation from Sony support posted on AVForums ...

So far I'm slightly leaning towards the 606 as being a popular, well-documented and richtly-featured amp, but I'm still worried about the power usage.

 

[KOF]

I used to have Harma Kardon AVR 347 and there was a bit of a lag while playing fighting games. The lag wasn't too bad while playing on CRT monitor, but because it only upscaled up to 720p, it introduced double scaling on Sony Bravia and I could notice a bit longer lag. I've since returned both, but I plan to purchase Harman Karman receiver again. The sound quality was too good to pass. The Onkyo 605/606 sounded thin in comparison. It did have a bit of a crosstalk problem with PS3, but I've sorted it out.

 

[djskribbles]

I consider myself an audio/videophile. IMHO, these are the best mid-range AVR's on the market (not sure if the model numbers are any different there). In no particular order:
Harman Kardon AVR-254/354
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K (the VSX-1019 is coming out soon, but to me, it doesn't look like it offers much more over the 1018)
Onkyo TX-SR606B
Yamaha HTR-6160/RX-V663
Denon AVR-1909/789

Personally, I think these brands offer better sound quality than Sony. I would buy any one of these AVR's. I personally went with the Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K because it was the cheapest at the time, and I'm more than happy with it. Pioneer's non-Elite line were considered to be pretty average AVR's. The 1018 is technically not an Elite model, however it's essentially the same as the VSX-01TXH, which is an Elite. All the internals are the same (and physical appearance is pretty much the same), the VSX-01TXH just has a few extra features.

All of these AVR's are quite popular over at AVSForum. Some things you might want to know. The HK did have issues with the PS3, but they were fixed in a firmware update. Not sure if it comes with the newer units. The Yamaha also has known problems of not being able to pass blacker than black, but this isn't a big deal. Onkyo AVR's are known to run relatively hot, so make sure you have enough ventilation if you go with that one. The Pioneer only has a 1-year manufacturer warranty, whereas the others have 2.

edit: Oh yeah, I should note (was already mentioned earlier in this thread) but the PS3 doesn't bitstream DTS-HD MA/TrueHD (streaming them to your AVR to be decoded), it internally decodes the audio and send it to your AVR as LPCM. All you really need is an AVR that has HDMI repeating (not HDMI switching) because the PS3 already decodes the audio. With that said, it might be a good idea to pick one up that does do the decoding in case you get a Blu-Ray player that doesn't internally decode the audio.

 

[archie4oz]

Yeah, I'm becoming an expert on both of these amps and the 820 (or any of the Sony series) will fail when using HDMI->DVI in that situation.

Actually my 6400ES works fine with HDMI->DVI; of course the receiver has to be set to process the audio and not pass it through. (It also helps that my TV is also Sony and the DVI port on it has fairly robust HDCP support).

 

[slider]

I'm so upset with myself. I have this beast...

And it's still in it's box.

 

[SG79]

No problem, I'll fly over wherever you are and hook it up for you free of charge Hooking up and calibrating AV equipment is... let's say just it gets me excited quite a bit.

 

[Asher]

On the minus side, I do not like reading about the 606's heat and power consumption. It appears to be twice that of the 820, which is a big downer for me. Could very well be that this is partly caused by things like analog to digital upconversion, but my old amp was already prone to overheating under certain conditions (good self protect system though) and electricity is expensive. This for an amp that's almost twice the weight of the Sony (15kg vs 8kg?) makes me wonder.

The heat/power thing is grossly overstated. Some guys with a kill-o-watt meter on AVS show the 606 takes only ~60W of juice while on at ~55 volume (which is quite loud).

In general, weight in a receiver is a good thing. The Sony is lighter and uses less power because its components are less substantive, particularly the D/A parts. There's probably lighter heatsinks in it, too.

I've the 606 in a small, tight cabinet and it gets barely warm to the touch when used for long periods of time. The PS3 generates WAY more heat, by far.

I would not let the "heat/power" usage sway your opinion much, as it's pretty inconsequential. More important are capabilities (that you'll use in the future, or present) and sound quality.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

I consider myself an audio/videophile. IMHO, these are the best mid-range AVR's on the market (not sure if the model numbers are any different there). In no particular order:
Harman Kardon AVR-254/354
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K (the VSX-1019 is coming out soon, but to me, it doesn't look like it offers much more over the 1018)
Onkyo TX-SR606B
Yamaha HTR-6160/RX-V663
Denon AVR-1909/789

Personally, I think these brands offer better sound quality than Sony.

Yet I'm 110% sure if you did a blind ABX test on any of those, you couldn't tell them apart...

 

[manux]

Marantz sr5003 and 6003 have had some good reviews and very little bad experiences on "net forums". I would definately consider marantz before going onkyo way. Onkyos seem to have heating problems which would make me steer away from them.

 

[djskribbles]

Marantz, while good, are generally more expensive. I don't think Arwin is looking to spend that kind of money, which is why I recommended mid-range AVR's. I agree about Onkyo though, which is why I said that he should leave sufficient room for breathing if he goes with the Onkyo.

Yet I'm 110% sure if you did a blind ABX test on any of those, you couldn't tell them apart...

Probably not all of them, but some of them I probably could. I bet some people actually could too. Some AVR's are warmer than others, that's usually a big giveaway.

 

[manux]

Marantz, while good, are generally more expensive. I don't think Arwin is looking to spend that kind of money which is why I recommended mid-range AVR's. I agree about Onkyo though, which is why I said that he should leave sufficient room for breathing if he goes with the Onkyo.

Marantz 4003 should be less than 500e and it has 3*hdmi in 1 hdmi out. 5003 is somewhat more expensive but the quality should offset the higher price. The scaler in marantz is relatively limited though so that might be a reason not to get these "cheaper" amplifiers from Marantz.

edit. Some prices from germany
499e for 4003
640e for 5003

 

[slider]

No problem, I'll fly over wherever you are and hook it up for you free of charge Hooking up and calibrating AV equipment is... let's say just it gets me excited quite a bit.

I'm probably moving soon so it'll stay in it's box for the time being - appreciate the offer though (seriously, don't joke about it... I might end up holding you to it!).

 

[djskribbles]

Marantz 4003 should be less than 500e and it has 3*hdmi in 1 hdmi out. 5003 is somewhat more expensive but the quality should offset the higher price. The scaler in marantz is relatively limited though so that might be a reason not to get these "cheaper" amplifiers from Marantz.

edit. Some prices from germany
499e for 4003
640e for 5003

Then it comes to features/value vs quality/sound because the 4003 doesn't decode TrueHD/DTS-HD MA. IMHO, anyone of these AVR's will sound good enough for most people, and they decode the HD audio formats. I know it's not necessary with the PS3, and that 4003 will suffice as it has HDMI repeating, but if I'm going to spend money on an AVR at this point, I would like it to be able to decode them just to be future proof or give you more flexibility. That's my 0.02 anyway.

 

[manux]

Then it comes to features/value vs quality/sound because the 4003 doesn't decode TrueHD/DTS-HD MA. IMHO, anyone of these AVR's will sound good enough for most people, and they decode the HD audio formats. I know it's not necessary with the PS3, and that 4003 will suffice as it has HDMI repeating, but if I'm going to spend money on an AVR at this point, I would like it to be able to decode them just to be future proof or give you more flexibility. That's my 0.02 anyway.

This goes totally offtopic but... Decoding on amplifier makes no sense for blu-ray. When decoding on amplifier one would loose all the bonus soundtracks mixed over the original soundtrack. Ofcourse you could switch between bitstreaming and decoding on player but why bother? The transfer via hdmi doesn't loose any information and jitter isn't issue with any half decent amplifier. Blu-ray specification is built around the player doing decoding. The reason in my opinion why amplifiers have decoders for blu-ray is just the "me too" effect as there is opportunity to sell new stuff to users(that they don't really need).

I personally would cough up some more cash for quality amplifier with future proof features rather than going for the cheap one that has the features on paper but might be poorly constructed or have other kind of problems or just fall short on passing the full rgb signal over hdmi. Marantz has had very little negative feedback as opposed to some other amplifiers mentioned in this thread. Short read in avsforum should be enough to steer away from some amplifiers which are not that shabby based on user experiences. One future proof feature worth investing might be 2*hdmi out You never know when you actually want to have tv and projector connected and have an easy way to switch between the display devices.

 

[mrcorbo]

Yet I'm 110% sure if you did a blind ABX test on any of those, you couldn't tell them apart...

Well, since I've done it, I can say that I am 100% sure that I could.

Different amplifier circuitry absolutely colors the sound. Whether one sounds better than another is purely subjective, but they unquestionably sound different. And hearing them playing the same track on the same speakers in the same room makes this pretty clear.

 

[djskribbles]

This goes totally offtopic but... Decoding on amplifier makes no sense for blu-ray. When decoding on amplifier one would loose all the bonus soundtracks mixed over the original soundtrack. Ofcourse you could switch between bitstreaming and decoding on player but why bother? The transfer via hdmi doesn't loose any information and jitter isn't issue with any half decent amplifier. Blu-ray specification is built around the player doing decoding. The reason in my opinion why amplifiers have decoders for blu-ray is just the "me too" effect as there is opportunity to sell new stuff to users(that they don't really need).

I personally would cough up some more cash for quality amplifier with future proof features rather than going for the cheap one that has the features on paper but might be poorly constructed or have other kind of problems or just fall short on passing the full rgb signal over hdmi. Marantz has had very little negative feedback as opposed to some other amplifiers mentioned in this thread. Short read in avsforum should be enough to steer away from some amplifiers which are not that shabby based on user experiences. One future proof feature worth investing might be 2*hdmi out You never know when you actually want to have tv and projector connected and have an easy way to switch between the display devices.

Not all Blu-Ray players are capable of decoding audio. Only mid to high end players are capable. Some lower end ones do, but not many. Who knows, they might put built in decoders in all players in the near future, I just said I'd prefer to buy an AVR with on-board decoding just to give you more flexibility. Many prefer bitstreaming because they believe their AVR's decoders are better.