Best receiver for PS3 et al

[Arwin]

Actually it's not that off-topic ... Just way off budget for me.

How does a good subwoofer enhance game experience for instance? I can imagine a game like Killzone 2 or Resistance 2 or even Uncharted may sound better, but are there any particular games you've noticed that have the quality output to match the subwoofer?

 

[AntShaw]

Actually it's not that off-topic ... Just way off budget for me.

How does a good subwoofer enhance game experience for instance? I can imagine a game like Killzone 2 or Resistance 2 or even Uncharted may sound better, but are there any particular games you've noticed that have the quality output to match the subwoofer?

That's like saying how does Rumble support enhance game experience.

I think it comes down to a personal preference. When I'm running and gunning I like to 'feel' those low end explosions, and gun shots, etc. Driving in GTA style games with radio play.

I don't have any kids or neighbors, and my wife is accommodating to loud music/gaming. It's hard for me to believe people don't play without a sub. I guess one of those things you don't miss if you've never had, but can't go without once you do.

 

[joker454]

How does a good subwoofer enhance game experience for instance? I can imagine a game like Killzone 2 or Resistance 2 or even Uncharted may sound better, but are there any particular games you've noticed that have the quality output to match the subwoofer?

Subs are veeeeeery important. It helps with all kinds of stuff, like you can feel the rumble of tanks going by, helicopter blades have that extra punch in their sound, explosions really hit the spot, the sound of a shotgun can also be felt, etc. Many games will benefit from having a real sub. Most surround speakers can't really replicate low frequencies, even some of the pricier ones, so usually you set your speaker type to "small" on the amp so that it will route all the low frequency stuff from all 5 channels straight to the sub. Makes a real big difference, to me anyways. I have full size tower speakers, but I still have them set to small on the amp, so everything below 80hz is getting routed to the sub.

 

[Arwin]

Doesn't that mess with the surround, making part of the sound-scape come from one single source?

 

[RobertR1]

Low frequency doesn't have the localization problem of high(er) frequency sounds.

 

[djskribbles]

Yeah, you can put a sub pretty much anywhere. Most of the time, you won't even be able to tell where the bass is coming from if you have everything setup right (ie the cross over point, the point at which any frequency below this point will be sent to your subwoofer). Most people set the x-over point to ~80Hz.

A sub is very important, especially if you have smaller speakers. Smaller speakers generally lack in the low frequencies department and are unable to produce deep enough bass. A sub will give more oomph to low frequencies and make your experience more immersive. If you have very large towers capable of handling very low frequencies, you might be able to get by without a sub, but speakers like this will probably cost a lot of money, and they will be very big.

 

[SG79]

It's recommended that a sub is placed near a corner for maximum impact, though I wouldn't recommend it if that corner is near a window.

 

[Jugix]

but are there any particular games you've noticed that have the quality output to match the subwoofer?

Bioshock - Big Daddies. Oh yeah, Baby!

Big daddies really make the room shake and when they moan in the distance you get this creepy feeling because of the low frequencies. Generally gamesounds lack the fidelity of high-quality Hollywood movies, but they are getting there.

Like few people said subwoofer localization is no problem below 100Hz. It is recommended to set all speakers to Small from AV-reciever unless speakers can truly go down to 20Hz without effort. There are lots of movies (and games) which have very low frequencies mixed even for surrounds therefore always redirect those sounds to sub.

 

[holsty101]

It's recommended that a sub is placed near a corner for maximum impact, though I wouldn't recommend it if that corner is near a window.

I don't know that that's 100% correct TBH. Most of the audio/av articles I've read seem to say that a corner position will give you more "boom" but you'll loose out on some control & tightness of bass.

I think ultimately sub positioning needs handling on a room by room basis & if you wanna find the ideal position for your room you need to do the subwoofer crawl

 

[AntShaw]

I have my sub placed between the couches in the room so I get some carry through them.

 

[Arwin]

Well, got it and installed it! Sounds like my speakers weren't the biggest bottleneck Everything works like a charm, no complaints so far! Tried Wall-E BD, bright clear sound, no noise whatsoever. As expected my rear-speakers can use a bit of an upgrade though.

 

[green.pixel]

How much time during the movies/games are rear speakers active ? Not always I suppose, especially during the dramas and comedies, and when they are, they are acting as "effects" speakers. So, am I right thinking that they don't need to be high quality and expensive like the front and center ones ?

 

[Barbarian]

I recently upgraded from 5.1 to 7.1 setup and outside of "test" sounds like THX logos and the like, I can barely tell the difference.
What DID make a huge difference for me was upgrading my Denon receiver with the Audissey Dynamic EQ / Dynamic Volume. Best $100 ever spend on sound equipment.

 

[Arwin]

How much time during the movies/games are rear speakers active ? Not always I suppose, especially during the dramas and comedies, and when they are, they are acting as "effects" speakers. So, am I right thinking that they don't need to be high quality and expensive like the front and center ones ?

Actually they're quite active I've noticed. I read about this when the game came out, but I have now experienced for myself: Uncharted is really one of the best showcases when it comes to games. Almost all the soundsources are situated in 3d space (well, x/z space ) so if you turn you can hear the sound actually move around you. Take the demo level, where you can here the waterfall (any of them) at the right spot. Or take any of the levels where someone is walking with you, you'll always know where he is. It's pretty amazing, and the sound-quality of Uncharted is downright stunning. The Uncharted 2 beta has some amazing sound-effect in the menu which has an awesome pitch.

In these cases, I think in the ideal circumstance you actually have 5 great speakers. That said, in reality the sound that comes to you from behind you can't hear as clearly as you can the rest, so in that sense it's a little less jarring if the sound from behind is slightly lower quality.

Also, the rear speakers are continuously helping to recreate the soundscape, i.e. the reflection of sounds in the environment (think equal to or less extreme variants of what you hear in a Church).

 

[RobertR1]

How much time during the movies/games are rear speakers active ? Not always I suppose, especially during the dramas and comedies, and when they are, they are acting as "effects" speakers. So, am I right thinking that they don't need to be high quality and expensive like the front and center ones ?

Your front three are key, esp your center as it's your dialouge. The rears/surrounds are no where as important as the front 3. The rears are generally used for background and carrying through sounds such as a train going past you. I'd spend the money on front 3, sub and receiver. Then worry around the surrounds.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I'd have to respectfully disagree with regards to the importance/quality of rear speakers, especially in games.

At least in games that use them well. Gears of War 2 was quite phenomenal with using all positional speakers for example.

For movie watch it may be slightly less useful. However keep in mind that many movies will use the rear speaker for ambient/background music. Quality (to me is quite imporant, IMO).

Center channel is perhaps THE most imporant speaker when watching movies however as it makes dialog so much clearer.

Unless, you're thinking of going super high end speakers. I'd recommend getting a good package of surround speakers that are accoustically well matched. While by no means high end speakers, I couldn't be more happy with my Onkyo SKS HK750(B) 7.1 surround speakers. Music is crisp and well defined, and games sound fantastic. Certainly better than the hodgepodge high end speakers I had before. And at almost a third of the price of what I had before. I think I only spend about 300 USD on them rather than the close to 1000 USD of the previous speakers.

Regards,
SB

 

[djskribbles]

I agree with RobertR1, surrounds/rears aren't nearly as important as your front 3 (especially center). It's important to timber match your front 3 as best as you can, but your surrounds don't matter as much because sounds behind you sound different anyway and they aren't used nearly as much. With that said, I wouldn't buy the cheapest speaker you can buy, but any decent speaker will do.

 

[Arwin]

While we're on the subject of those three, another tweeter of my left ancient Wharfdale speakers gave out again (I've replaced them with admittedly also old parts five times now I think) just before I got the new amp, and while searching for a replacement I came across some other pretty new second hand sets as well. I checked some of them out, read some reviews, and when I read the reviews for a pair of B&W I was sold. So I offered the asking price (just 30 euros over what was being bid at that point) and got them the same evening (this one)!

I must say, I am extremely happy with them! My old Wharfdales were by no means bad, but they were just really utterly and totally worn out. These new speakers are decidedly better - their sound is just really, really accurate.

They are B&W 602 S2, and they fit in with the rest immediately, no need for any settings adjustments from the defaults as the test tone reveals a consistent volume coming from all five speakers. I tried Uncharted and Wall-E BluRay (both quickly becoming my go-to for testing! the sound quality of these two is downright astounding), and now I could barely be happier with the sound quality I've got. Sure, my rear speakers could do better (again Uncharted being a very good example of where you hear certain sounds move all around you, demanding more from your rear speakers than usual) but the quality really is excellent. I'm one happy camper! And for just 225 euros too. I now spent 555 euros on my sound setup for a new amp and two new front speakers and I think I can last for at least another 15 years again. Awesome.

 

[Arwin]

So, when my dad heard about my new amp and speakers, he suggested that he'd give me a new center speaker and surround speakers for my birthday. While I thought I could really use them, the new speakers were already beyond what I had promised myself so I was ready to stop there and be happy enough. But my dad insisted, knowing that I'm even more into this kind of thing than he is and I would really enjoy it. And he's very, very right. By the time the speakers arrived I was pretty sure that I would otherwise have replaced the other three speakers around next year myself.

Really happy to take him up on the offer though and so now I added a JBL LC-1 center speaker to the system, which really seems to fit very well with the B&W front speakers and now the sound in the front is better than anything I"ve ever experienced in any cinema. Even my wife noticed the difference and enthusiastically commented on it, something which neither of us had really expected.

For surround speakers I ended up getting the Jamo 601s - I really wanted a smaller model, even though these cost as much new as I got the B&W speakers second hand for, which is a bit scary. But they're really good, and I think I'm good to go for the next 15 years. Really happy! I've also figured out just about everything I need about the Sony DG820 to get the most out of this. This morning I even set up the distance for each individual speaker, and configured the Neo6 Music surround decoder for regular stereo music, which does sound very good.

So far every purchase seems to outperform my expectations, and despite mixing 3 different speaker brands I think I have a very harmonious setup now. Very, very happy! I think I'm going to complete Uncharted 1 again but on Hard now just for the sound (already got to chapter 4 again). I'm still in love with the sound in Wall-E also, but I can now happily say that the intro of the Spiderman 3 movie (I bought the 3-pack a fair while ago) sounds great and really gives you that 'hey, I'm in the cinema!' feel.