Best 4K HDR TV's for One X, PS4 Pro [2017-2020]

Discussion in 'Console Industry' started by Rangers, Apr 29, 2017.

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  1. KOF

    KOF
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    As of now, there are only 3 consumer displays that can truly handle HDR highlights of 1000 nits or more : The Panasonic GZ2000, the Sony Z9D, the Sony Z9G, and the smallest size the Z9D comes in is at 65 inches, the smallest size the Z9G comes in is at 85 inches. Here is a kicker though. The Z9G is capable of hitting 3,900 nits, while the Z9D is only capable of 1,600 nits according to FlatpanelsHD. That means the Z9G should be providing more then twice the brightness of the Z9D right? Not quite. ANSI measurements actually shows the Z9D maintaining 1,400 nits while the Z9G’s fall from the grace is far harsher at 1,025 nits, outdone by the Z9D by 37% instead! Why? The Z9D only has 630 local dimming zones while the Z9G has 720 local dimming zones so this simply cannot be happening right? With a big caveat. Here is FlatpanelsHD’s comment :


    ”As discussed in the calibration section, and shown in the measurements section, Sony Z9G can hit a maximum of 3000-4000 nits peak brightness but only in very special situations. Put a checkerboard pattern (8 white squares, and 8 black squares) on it and it hits "only" 1025 nits peak brightness, while black rises to 0.23 nits in the center of the black square and 0.45 nits along the edges. This was in 'Custom' mode. While this may sound technical, it is really quite simple. LCD TVs rely on a backlight and Z9G has zone dimming so as brightness goes up, so does black levels in adjacent areas. These extreme peak brightness levels are an example of quantity over quality because all of that light cannot be tamed and applied in small segments of the picture - where it is most relevant - due to limited backlight control. We counted a total of 720 dimming zones (36 horizontal, 20 vertical). Sony declined to confirm/deny but it should be in the ballpark. In other words, each single dimming zone covers 46080 pixels. Sony explained that 'Backlight Master Drive' in Z9G is a little different from the original implementation in Z9D where each LED could be controlled individually. Z9G operates its backlight unit in "segments".


    That’s right. LCDs also employ ABL at the top end of spectrum and unlike at the bottom end, peak luminance drops the smaller windows get. Here is a graph to illustrate this.

    [​IMG]

    At the smallest window of 1%, among all LCDs, it’s only the Z9D that could still maintain over 1,000 nits (1,200 nits) at the smallest window while all other LCDs falter. Vizio P (2016) is one of the worst offender that can only maintain peak brightness at extremely large window because of its limited dimming zones of under 64, and poor dimming zone controllers. Like the Z9D has demonstrated, it’s not just number of dimming zones it’s important, it’s also number of dimming zone controllers employed, and Sony did not cut corners on the Z9D by utilizing each LEDs as dimming zone controlling point, thereby able to defeat the Z9D that has higher dimming zone numbers, but actually less controllers. Unfortunately for LCDs, heat output becomes a concern the higher HDR numbers it’s trying to get so it cannot hit it with smaller sizes like 43, 50 inches. Even employing FALD would still loss out to the LG OLEDs in peak brightness, and manufacturers don’t want to make any FALD LCDs under 50 inches due to budget nature, FALD is already more expensive then OLEDs to make, thus, edge-lits are all you’re going to get and they will all be beaten to the LG OLEDs let alone Panasonic/Philiips OLEDs. So the Sony Z9G was made in minimum size of 85 inches in effort to obtain 4,000 nits of brightness only to get ruined by mediocre dimmming zone controllers, thus facing the biggest depletion.

    Aren’t OLEDs ABL limited still? Not really. Check out the dark blued colored figure in the graph which is the Sony BVMX300 OLED mastering monitor, which is hailed as the one of the ultimate mastering monitor for Hollywood and it also has ABL cap of 170 nits at 100% white window. The point of HDR is not to make people’s eyes burn, but actually only makes smaller area go brigher while the relative APL is not too much changed from SDR standard of 100 nits. The Sony BVM actually comes with a warning light that if content creator is trying to go over the APL limit, it will flash to let them know. The Panasonic GZ2000 is actually puts up a pretty close fight to the X300, holding out well up to 10% windows, winning out on 50% windows, while losing on 25%,100% windows.
     
  2. Arwin

    Arwin Now Officially a Top 10 Poster
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    I thought this video was quite good ... it makes me appreciate the LG C9 a bit more than I did previously, but also keeps me more than happy with the Q85R ;)

     
  3. Silenti

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    I really like this guy. Thank you. Unfortunately I cannot justify the price of an OLED at $2k+. Waiting for the new TCL 6 and, maybe, depending on price, the TCL 8.
     
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  4. mrcorbo

    mrcorbo Foo Fighter
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    For gaming displays don't sleep on the new Vizios. They seem to have finally gotten their footing back after the LeEco debacle.
     
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  5. ToTTenTranz

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    I got my 65" C9 for 1800€ back in early January.
    I think you'll be able to purchase a 55" B9/BX during some sales at close to 1000€/$1000, or a 65" one for 1600€ or less, throughout 2020.

    Of course these will never come close to the TCL prices, but damn these OLED TVs are pure gold IMO.
     
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  6. Nesh

    Nesh Double Agent
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    In my area a 55' B9 costs around €1300 and I am tempted. I am considering to wait a little bit more. I hope that sweet €1000 price point comes a lot sooner than winter
     
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  7. Shifty Geezer

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    :shock: now that's a TV!
     
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  8. Nesh

    Nesh Double Agent
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    :lol::lol2:
    55"
     
  9. Silenti

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    I have looked at them. They are under consideration. This has to double as my PC monitor. Our projector broke, my old monitor broke, we are using a 24" Sceptre monitor for the time being. Rather ugly to be honest. :)

    Around $1k I could justify if it is that much better. Think the TCL6 is going to be in the $7-800 range? There-abouts? The 8 series is likely to be 2k, but I could justify it for future proofing as a PC monitor at 8k resolution.

    Have to wait and see. Who knows what COVID is going to do to release schedules or sales.
     
  10. Arwin

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    After a small week with the TV getting happier and happier. Just rewatched some stuff like the last episode of The Morning Show. I’m noticing that Apple TV stuff in particular is very high quality both image quality for 4k and HDR. Amazing stuff.

    Oh and ordered an external hdd and usb splitter so I can download some games to test and replay.
     
    #1730 Arwin, May 16, 2020
    Last edited: May 17, 2020
  11. Nesh

    Nesh Double Agent
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    Ok tomorrow I might purchase the 55" B9 OLED but the potential image burn in is making me hesitant
    Some big games that require hours of play will have HUD elements displayed for too long. And that worries me a lot.

    Anyone else had issues?

    Or should I go with a Samsung QLED instead? But the B9 has awesome image quality and input lag......
     
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  12. mrcorbo

    mrcorbo Foo Fighter
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    Burn-in is manageable. The question you have to ask yourself is, is the performance worth the need to have to account for it during your usage throughout the life of the set. There's no right or wrong answer to this. It's up to the individual and their priorities.

    As an aside, I'm kinda bummed right now about the lack of eARC support for DTS and DTS-X streams on any HDMI 2.1 set I've seen. This kind of means I'm back to holding out for HDMI 2.1 receivers. :/
     
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  13. Nesh

    Nesh Double Agent
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    That sucks.
    Now I wonder if I should wait for mcroLED but those could be overly expensive too
     
  14. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    Isn't the lg 9 series supports DTS and DTS x? IIRC HDTV test said its one of the advantage of the older model than the new X series.

    Or that was only DTS decoding, but no DTS bitstreaming... So weird. It can decode DTS why it can't Bitstream DTS.

    If tv hacking scene is as big as phone hacking scene, people probably made a custom firmware with all kinds of features enabled, even if they need to Jerry rig something into the firmware.

    Edit
    Rtings reports it can do dts over earc https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/c9-oled

    Edit:
    Maybe your TV is in old firmware? Try manually updating the firmware thru LG website. You can use firmware from any region as long as its the same model. The firmware is multi csc. If incompatible firmware, it won't update.

    At least on my bargain bin lg uh6100.
     
    #1734 orangpelupa, Jun 2, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
  15. tongue_of_colicab

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    Its a hardware limitation. The way I understand it is they use some kind of bridge chip and because of that it is physically impossible. The same limitation applies to the 2020 LG's as well by the way. Which is why I went with the C9.

    Of course if you hook up all your equipment to a receiver it won't be an issue.

    But it is a downside. The whole promise of EARC is that you should be able to use much simpler receivers as they'll only have to take care of the audio part.
     
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  16. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    According to the commenter on that post, c9 able to do dts over earc after firmware update.

    Or maybe lg did silent hardware revision, so some c9 can be updated and get earc dts but some others can't do dts over earc even with FW update.

    Btw this is the hdtvtest video I mean where he talks about c9 can do dts while the new one, cx, can't https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT5VK5YPTkc&ved=2ahUKEwixjcXMvuPpAhUA8XMBHVIoAzAQtwIwAHoECAgQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3RaynZ5PkdmWn1xy_ohKrV

    And yeah, earc and hdmi 2.1 standard should fix all these audio headaches (that I also encounter myself on other thread). So anyone with hdmi 2.1 devices will be in a bliss of plug and play.

    But turns out each manufacturer still can be different... And if you ask the sales person, probably none of them know about it.

    Edit:
    https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-o...ing-firmware-more.html#/topics/3075344?page=1 also mentions c9 got dts over earc

    Edit:
    Reading around, it seems c9 can do dts Bitstream
    • over hdmi
    • From hdmi
    • From internal lg media player app
    But It can't decode dts and bitsream dts if it's from 3rd party app.
     
    #1736 orangpelupa, Jun 2, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
  17. ToTTenTranz

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    I'm not sure what you mean here.

    The C9 can send DTS, Dolby Digital and even Dolby Digital Plus from normal ARC. This is for most TVs with ARC support, not just the C9.
    eARC is for DTS-HD, Dolby TrueHD, Atmos and multichannel Linear PCM.
     
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  18. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    sorry, i meant DTS HD. The lossless DTS codec instead of the usual lossy DTS. DTS-X over earc also works (according to those links on previous post, i dont have the device)

    upload_2020-6-4_11-51-45.png
    from rtings https://www.rtings.com/tv/tools/compare
     
    #1738 orangpelupa, Jun 4, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
  19. Nesh

    Nesh Double Agent
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    Got my B9 yesterday.
    Great picture quality. Love it. It is a bit dark though even after calibration, but those blacks are the best blacks I ve ever seen. Colors are great
    I do feel though that there is something fishy about the HDR in general though. Not just this set. :p
     
  20. Arwin

    Arwin Now Officially a Top 10 Poster
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    I loved the HDR on The Morning Show and some beautiful sun effects in Red Dead Redemption 2 ... in general I’m really pleased by Apple TV’s quality 4k/HDR ...

    Sometimes the effect is more subtle, like just the absence of not having the ugly artifacts in low lit scenes and then one or two lamps that really stand out. This effect should be even better on OLED.

    The actual max brightness on something like the Samsung QLED is much higher though so I suppose the effect sometimes really stands out more there. More so when you are watching during the daytime.
     
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