But brighter is always better.
Best 4K HDR TV's for One X, PS4 Pro [2017-2020]
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But brighter is always better.
To be fair both sets are neutered when seen from a YT video or anything that's not directly seen from the source hardware itself, so disadvantages apply to both here tho you can still get a rough approximation of the real thing. Some hard facts just can't be disputed such as the drastic difference in peak brightness and APL. And speaking of the viewing condition, as the video and pictures already demonstrated the HDR in both dark and bright room favors Z9D. Oled only gets the advantage in really dark scene where the extreme contrast would favor its self emissive function by eliminating the haloing or blooming. But then again it looses out on near black details such as shown here.
I think the point of that comparison wasn't to actually show the two TVs but to listen to what Vincent said about them in different situations. Of course neither of them will look anywhere near what they supposed to, from a YouTube video.
The LG Oled is probably the most rounded high end tv right now for most people. But for next gen feature like HDR performance or HDR gaming it's definitely ZD9's game as also mentioned by them. Most people still only watch in SDR such as broadcast, DVDs or standard blu rays and Oled is pretty much the King in all those. So to me the Best is only relative, it all depends on your need or priority. Then again why would you invest on a new 4k/HDR set without aiming for the best HDR performance in the first place?
Professional reviews, critiques and views don't always hold up when it comes to consumer's taste. Everybody is not going to use a light controlled room for their TV space. OLED dominates in those setups but the moment you start adding light to the situation, the Z9D will start to close the gap. Brighter TVs do better in brighter environments. While OLEDs are able to provide better blacks and wider color gamuts at those levels. TVs like the Z9D have wider color gamuts at brighter settings and colors won't wash out as easily when you are trying to combat a bright enviroment.
If you are not providing professional like calibration to your TVs (how many of us are actually doing so) and unless your TVs are coming out the box almost spot on, then your PQ of your TV is probably deemed "crappy" by most professional calibrators anyways.
I'd pick a Z9D over an OLED because my living room tends to be bright as the sun. LOL. I have what's basically a 9X12 foot window about 8 feet from my TV and I like to flood my living space with as much natural light as possible. Even at night I have lights on because I prefer a well lit enviroment in general even when TV viewing.
I rather buy a TV that accommodates my general preference, not one where I have to accommodate its preferable setup. An OLED is not going to be the best choice for every set up so one should take account of one's own personal preference and setup before choosing what TV to buy. A Z9D or the like might make a better choice.
If you are not providing professional like calibration to your TVs (how many of us are actually doing so) and unless your TVs are coming out the box almost spot on, then your PQ of your TV is probably deemed "crappy" by most professional calibrators anyways.
I'd pick a Z9D over an OLED because my living room tends to be bright as the sun. LOL. I have what's basically a 9X12 foot window about 8 feet from my TV and I like to flood my living space with as much natural light as possible. Even at night I have lights on because I prefer a well lit enviroment in general even when TV viewing.
I rather buy a TV that accommodates my general preference, not one where I have to accommodate its preferable setup. An OLED is not going to be the best choice for every set up so one should take account of one's own personal preference and setup before choosing what TV to buy. A Z9D or the like might make a better choice.
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Yeah at that price difference I'd more than likely would take the less bright TV. LOL.
ZD9 will get DV through a firmware update.
You don't need to use torch mode. Notice how while every calibrator promotes a light controlled room, just about every manufacturer (including lg) promotes these TVs with bright white living rooms. Deep blacks don't mean as much if you are going to wash it out with too much background light. No manufacturer would care about inhibiting light reflections on these screens if consumers weren't readily using them in setups where it mattered.
LG readily tries to combat this as the Best Buys where I live have been using subdued lighting when it comes to their OLED space for a while even though a few feet away the Sony and Samsung spaces tend to be noticeably brighter. I noticed this before I realized it's benefit to OLEDs. I thought it was BB just being cheap because while it makes for a more pleasing image on the OLED screens, it makes me feel like I am in a pawn shop.
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The reality is that for HDR gaming, the ZD9 is the best by far.
I've found myself more and more happy with my Le Eco. The only major thing that was bothering me was a strobing effect (some kind of bug I assume) on Destiny 1 menu's.
However in some time I have not really noticed any issues in any other games.
TV is still pretty gorgeous overall and a fantastic value. After all it has a 4k, wide color gamut, and is a major improvement on my old TV, it only lacks in peak brightness (and it's a case of not knowing what I'm missing there). I might just keep it longer term until a great 65" deal comes along, and eschew 55" altogether.
I guess I have until September 21 to make a final decision, that's when the 90 day return period on the Le Eco closes. If I'm holding out for the 65" TCL that might be an issue, since it probably wont come out until at least Oct/Nov.
Also the X1X comes Nov 7. That's the date then I feel like I "need" to have a 4K TV of some sort. Yet the best Tv deals probably wont be until later, Black Friday. Another point in favor of keeping the LeEco for now.
If I can get a decent price for my Vizio I'll probably hold on to the LeEco then. Worst case it will be probably like I "rented" it for a few months for like $130 (considering the money I'll probably lose selling it vs returning it). I can live with that, it's not a vast sum, and in general the TV looks really great to me, it's pleasure to use.
However in some time I have not really noticed any issues in any other games.
TV is still pretty gorgeous overall and a fantastic value. After all it has a 4k, wide color gamut, and is a major improvement on my old TV, it only lacks in peak brightness (and it's a case of not knowing what I'm missing there). I might just keep it longer term until a great 65" deal comes along, and eschew 55" altogether.
I guess I have until September 21 to make a final decision, that's when the 90 day return period on the Le Eco closes. If I'm holding out for the 65" TCL that might be an issue, since it probably wont come out until at least Oct/Nov.
Also the X1X comes Nov 7. That's the date then I feel like I "need" to have a 4K TV of some sort. Yet the best Tv deals probably wont be until later, Black Friday. Another point in favor of keeping the LeEco for now.
If I can get a decent price for my Vizio I'll probably hold on to the LeEco then. Worst case it will be probably like I "rented" it for a few months for like $130 (considering the money I'll probably lose selling it vs returning it). I can live with that, it's not a vast sum, and in general the TV looks really great to me, it's pleasure to use.
The Z9D certainly has it use cases but I can't find one for me.
I do most of my critical viewing at night whether it's movies or games so for that the black levels are key and at that point scorching brightness is not desirable.
For casual daytime viewing, I'm not overly fussed what high end display it is. They all look good enough in that setting. The reflection handling is a better concern for me at that point.
I've never been able to do immersive viewing in the daytime but I can for people who can, the Z9D is a great option.
I do most of my critical viewing at night whether it's movies or games so for that the black levels are key and at that point scorching brightness is not desirable.
For casual daytime viewing, I'm not overly fussed what high end display it is. They all look good enough in that setting. The reflection handling is a better concern for me at that point.
I've never been able to do immersive viewing in the daytime but I can for people who can, the Z9D is a great option.
I guess people who want a TV next to big windows would want that kind of brightness.
It may take years for OLED to get much brighter. The road map indicates some significant changes ahead.
So even if you buy a high-end TV now, there may be compelling upgrades in 3-4 years.
It's one thing to spend $4500 on a TV but advances in design and manufacturing may make it seem obsolete in 3-4 years. Even $3200 may be too much for something to hold you over for 3-4 years.
But last year, the OLED TVs were priced comparably and then around Black Friday, the 65-inch models approached $2000.
It may take years for OLED to get much brighter. The road map indicates some significant changes ahead.
So even if you buy a high-end TV now, there may be compelling upgrades in 3-4 years.
It's one thing to spend $4500 on a TV but advances in design and manufacturing may make it seem obsolete in 3-4 years. Even $3200 may be too much for something to hold you over for 3-4 years.
But last year, the OLED TVs were priced comparably and then around Black Friday, the 65-inch models approached $2000.
LOL. It's not about wanting to place a TV next to a large window. At least in the US, modern home design is mostly centered around large open living spaces that maximize the use of natural light.
I surmise that while OLED won't catch up to the max brightness of LCD based competitors in the near future, they will still advance enough to keep its lead in terms of overall PQ.
OLED doesn't seem that far off from 1000 nits anyways. The c7 is limited to 700 nits in cinema mode but can actually output a max of ~850 nits (2% of screen) in vivid mode. Not sure why LG would limit brightness to accommodate such a mode unless color accuracy can't be assured at such levels. Nevertheless, I am guessing once the cost of current OLED technology falls to mid range prices, we will see LG provide much better brightness performance on the high end sets.
Furthermore, I think there will always be a compelling upgrade (dependent of much of an enthusiast you are) 3-4 years in the future for the next 10 or so years. We got 8K, tall color gamut and 10k nits on horizon. Personally I don't see the need (unless you are a videophile who has an early adopter fetish and plenty of disposable cash) to spend $4-8K on a TV. A little patience is all the difference you need to go from $4K-$6K every 3-4 years to spend $1500-$2500 every 3-4 years for the same hardware.
Plus once 10K becomes standard, you won't need to care if your house is totally made of glass or if you generally like a spot light on at night in your living room. You will be pumping out pure blue at 700-800 nits compared to 7-8 nits with SDR content on a properly calibrated TV.
My comment was tongue in cheek, but not entirely untrue.
The problem with OLEDs today is burn in and ABL. Both of which I've seen first hand and are directly a killer for gamers.
I wouldn't worry about burn in, but I did get very worried when I saw a few sets at John Lewis with very apparent patches caused by static images. Those sets are left on al day with static images so not surprised, and most users won't use them like that. But as a former plasma owner, I still have my worries.
By far the most important thing to worry about with OLEDs for gamers, and HDR gaming especially, is the Automatic Brightness Limiter. This is the system that limits light output according to what percentage of the screen is white. And this is what still needs to improve a lot, because gamers will play a lot of stuff where large portions of the screen are bright (especially in HDR!), and unfortunately on any OLED those will be noticeably dull. I couldn't get over the constant change in total brightness whenever a menu came up (white menus) or whenever a lot of bright stuff was on screen.
That's the real killer at the moment. I'm sure that when that's fixed, I'll change TV again.
By comparison, a TV like the ZD9 will pretty much always output the same light level regardless. While still giving you those OLED-like blacks.
My opinion, obvs.
The problem with OLEDs today is burn in and ABL. Both of which I've seen first hand and are directly a killer for gamers.
I wouldn't worry about burn in, but I did get very worried when I saw a few sets at John Lewis with very apparent patches caused by static images. Those sets are left on al day with static images so not surprised, and most users won't use them like that. But as a former plasma owner, I still have my worries.
By far the most important thing to worry about with OLEDs for gamers, and HDR gaming especially, is the Automatic Brightness Limiter. This is the system that limits light output according to what percentage of the screen is white. And this is what still needs to improve a lot, because gamers will play a lot of stuff where large portions of the screen are bright (especially in HDR!), and unfortunately on any OLED those will be noticeably dull. I couldn't get over the constant change in total brightness whenever a menu came up (white menus) or whenever a lot of bright stuff was on screen.
That's the real killer at the moment. I'm sure that when that's fixed, I'll change TV again.
By comparison, a TV like the ZD9 will pretty much always output the same light level regardless. While still giving you those OLED-like blacks.
My opinion, obvs.
Screen savers are back!
OLED-like blacks? No, just stop yourself. I give it to you, the ZD9 is an impressive display.
Infinity : 1 is OLED. 4322 : 1 is the ZD9. With Local Dimming the ZD9 is at 7976 : 1 measured. The ZD9 also suffers with regards to viewing angles (in fact, even a small change to the viewing angle gives a color shift) and gray uniformity. Color gamut is also vastly superior on the LG OLED which can show deeper greens compared to the ZD9. The LG OLED will suffer with extreme highlights because of the ABL but the overall color gamut is measurably better. The image quality is measurably better.
Worse motion blur and input lag for the ZD9.
Lastly, the ZD9 also suffers more from reflections than the LG OLED in all light conditions.
Infinity : 1 is OLED. 4322 : 1 is the ZD9. With Local Dimming the ZD9 is at 7976 : 1 measured. The ZD9 also suffers with regards to viewing angles (in fact, even a small change to the viewing angle gives a color shift) and gray uniformity. Color gamut is also vastly superior on the LG OLED which can show deeper greens compared to the ZD9. The LG OLED will suffer with extreme highlights because of the ABL but the overall color gamut is measurably better. The image quality is measurably better.
Worse motion blur and input lag for the ZD9.
Lastly, the ZD9 also suffers more from reflections than the LG OLED in all light conditions.
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