Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

[PSman1700]

You really believe in a 2 Ghz APU? Why would Sony choose to remodel de PS5 APU, and go for a 2 Ghz solution? All of us have the notion that a product with such high speeds could have yield problems, and become more expensive and problematic than a larger GPU. Consoles can last up to 8 years, with its hardware being more and more pushed over the years, and with 90% or more of its users never cleaning the vents or replacing the thermal paste. If the thermals are so pushed at launch, how to last a generation without problems?
Why think that Sony was not aware of that? Even though they are hardware manufacturers?

At first i thought, wow 2000mhz.... it made more sense (9tf) after awhile (rdna2 efficiency, the cooling solution rumor, smaller chip then XSX, and 399 price point target, no dual sku launch, and finally BC with PS4/Pro), DF mentioning leak was PS5, Komachi etc, it's not in the realm of im-possible, with in mind how high RX series clock. It still seems high though, for a console.
Has anyone talked about the 2ghz being a boost clock of some sort? Could the PS5 boost the GPU clock for BC modes? There was mentions of it being the full chip (correct me if im wrong).

No idea, just thoughts on the gpu clock, all other things line up with the data leak from amd's test labs. Even though, the test leak doesn't tell the whole tale.

Another thing, why did Cerny (was it him), mention that PS4 games require 8TF of allegedly GCN performance, seeing the date, to be in native 4k? The Pro already being finshed for 4k, why did he mention it?

 

[Metal_Spirit]

At first i thought, wow 2000mhz.... it made more sense after awhile (rdna2 efficiency, the cooling solution rumor, smaller chip then XSX, and 399 price point target, no dual sku launch, and finally BC with PS4/Pro), it's not in the realm of im-possible, with in mind how high RX series clock. It still seems high though, for a console.
Has anyone talked about the 2ghz being a boost clock of some sort? Could the PS5 boost the GPU clock for BC modes? There was mentions of it being the full chip (correct me if im wrong).

No idea, just thoughts on the gpu clock, all other things line up with the data leak from amd's test labs. Even though, the test leak doesn't tell the whole tale.

Another thing, why did Cerny (was it him), mention that PS4 games require 8TF of allegedly GCN performance, seeing the date, to be in native 4k? The Pro already being finshed for 4k, why did he mention it?

Easy

PS4 - 1,84 Tflops
Resolution - 1920x1080 - 30 fps
Divide 1,84 tflops by 1920, now by 1080, and now by 30.
You get 29,57 kflops dedicaded per pixel per frame.

Now, keep the same quality, and go for 3840x2160 30 fps, multiply by 3840 and by 2160, and by 30.

You get 7,36 Tflops. 8 Tflops is overhead for possible fps fluctuations on some more demanding operations.

This is not for next gen graphics... this is for current gen graphics with the same processing per pixel as the PS4.

 

[PSman1700]

Easy

PS4 - 1,84 Tflops
Resolution - 1920x1080 - 30 fps
Divide 1,84 tflops by 1920, now by 1080, and now by 30.
You get 29,57 kflops dedicaded per pixel per frame.

Now, keep the same quality, and go for 3840x2160 30 fps, multiply by 3840 and by 2160, and by 30.

You get 7,36 Tflops. 8 Tflops to ensure 900p games also would pass to full 4K.

This is not for next gen graphics... this is for current gen graphics with the same processing per pixel as the PS4.

I don't doubt that, but why did he mention it? Obviously, he ment in GCN flops, as a potentional 9 to 10TF rdna/2 console equals a what, 13 or more TF 2013 GCN console. 5700XT outperforms vega64 easily, a 13TF gpu?

 

[Metal_Spirit]

I don't doubt that, but why did he mention it? Obviously, he ment in GCN flops, as a potentional 9 to 10TF console equals a what, 13 or more TF 2013 GCN console.

A flop is a flop... Internal efficiency gains are another thing. You can get more results with the same flops, but not really more flops.
If you make the same calculations I did above for the Xbox 360 and/or PS3, you can see what gain we had in Flops per pixel on the new generation. This off course disregards efficiency gains.
But for a similar stepping, i mean a new generation with a flop per pixel gain equal to the one we had when we passed from the previous to the current gen, we would need 26 Tflops.
Since Sony worked with half resolution and CB reconstruction on the Pro, I always assumed Sony would go for 13 Tflops.
If we look at he gains we had on efficiency since GCN 1.1 till RDNA, and take that into consideration, yes the 9.2 Tflops could suffice.
But since efficiency gains are not took into consideration on the flops per pixel account from previous to current gen, doing it here would mean the evolution stepping would be smaller than the previous one.

 

[Metal_Spirit]

Off course, a 9.2 Tflops GPU with an ASIC working as RT Cores could also suffice, since RT will use a lot of resources on the GPU, and this would free them,
But this is speculation, although something rumoured.

 

[PSman1700]

Off course, a 9.2 Tflops GPU with an ASIC working as RT Cores could also suffice, since RT will use a lot of resources on the GPU, and this would free them,
But this is speculation, although something rumoured.

He sure ment in relation to PS4 architecture. Otherwise, even a 12TF console wouldn't be that impressive.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

1) Because silence isn’t doing Sony any favours

It isn't doing any damage either. No-one's going to refuse to buy PS5 if it's the product they want on account of Sony not talking about it earlier.

and hype is going towards Xbox atm.

Because Sony haven't started marketing yet, so it's presently a one horse race.

Why spends millions on marketing if this doesn’t count?

Who said marketing doesn't count? When Sony are ready to talk, they'll spend many millions on marketing. Not talking now doesn't do any harm though and doesn't undermine the message when Sony talks.

eg. PS5 is weaker than XBSX - talk about it just before release, ignoring communicating numbers, and leave the numbers comparison to DF-type investigations reaching a limited audience while the mainstream gamers just see PS5 and its games.

PS5 is stronger than XBSX - pull a last minute reveal stealing MS's power advantage and get all core gamers' eyes on the bigger number.

Marketing can swing the messaging any way they want and it's not in any way time dependent. There's no PR move that requires early communication. It's not like if PS5 is weaker, Sony have to talk about it now to give gamers time to come to terms with it emotionally so they are willing to buy it when it releases.

 

[JPT]

This thread just keeps on giving, it has given more enjoyment than I expect to get out of the PS5, whatever the TF will be
As for Sony not revealing anything yet, it looks to buy mindshare on here at least. I mean people are talking/writing more about PS5 than XSX for now and if any PR is good PR
But I agree with Shifty and others, most people barely knowns there will be a new Playstaion / Xbox this year.

As for China supply chain issues, a couple of our vendors are actually buying components on the spot market to try and keep up with deliveries. The larger players are increasing the component stocks by 30-50% to make sure they can secure deliveries going forward. Which means if you are a cash strapped company now, you are suffering even more. Then again if you are component vendor you are making a killing, unless the raw material people are also doing price gouging.
What does this have to do with Next-Gen consoles, probably nothing, I would assume most contracts would be nailed down by now, not knowing a thing about it.

I do wonder about all those cancelled conferences etc will they comeback or are they dead forever in the post Covid19 world.

 

[PSman1700]

I mean people are talking/writing more about PS5 than XSX for now and if any PR is good PR

Here on forums yes

 

[Silent_Buddha]

What does this have to do with Next-Gen consoles, probably nothing, I would assume most contracts would be nailed down by now, not knowing a thing about it.

Contract guarantees don't make a company completely immune to something like this. If capacity is affected such that the providing company can't get product to all contracted partners, then it doesn't matter if you have a guaranteed contract.

Contract guarantees mostly protect a company from supply issues or price issues in cases where demand for the part in question goes up such that overall supply becomes constrained due to increased demand. It doesn't help so much when supply becomes constrained because the supplier can now produce less product than they could when the contract was signed.

Regards,
SB

 

[Nisaaru]

You really believe in a 2 Ghz APU? Why would Sony choose to remodel de PS5 APU, and go for a 2 Ghz solution? All of us have the notion that a product with such high speeds could have yield problems, and become more expensive and problematic than a larger GPU. Consoles can last up to 8 years, with its hardware being more and more pushed over the years, and with 90% or more of its users never cleaning the vents or replacing the thermal paste. If the thermals are so pushed at launch, how to last a generation without problems?
Why think that Sony was not aware of that? Even though they are hardware manufacturers?

Actually I have no real believe here outside of that I consider the Github specs to define the PS5 and that the clocks there were just max functional test parameters for further validation down the line by Sony itself.

I'm just arguing in line of the rumours some Sony fans here believe and that their rumoured console might have *different* price problems than MS's.

But I would not dismiss the possibility that Sony management might be desperate enough to risk 2Ghz until they can get it on 5nm. 2 years of potential yield/higher repairs/disgruntled fans vs. market size? I wouldn't want to make that management decision as that can ruin careers

 

[Barrabas]

I do wonder about all those cancelled conferences etc will they comeback or are they dead forever in the post Covid19 world.

They won't be dead "forever", but I think that in this Covid-19 situation (sorry for bringing it up, but necessary) the industry will be very careful what they bring in to the news. A console reveal is a kind of celebration for the fans and this might not be appropriate in a time of concerned or even worse, seriously affected people world wide.

 

[iroboto]

They won't be dead "forever", but I think that in this Covid-19 situation (sorry for bringing it up, but necessary) the industry will be very careful what they bring in to the news. A console reveal is a kind of celebration for the fans and this might not be appropriate in a time of concerned or even worse, seriously affected people world wide.

Or. More the reason to roll it out. People are bored at home. Digital is taking over. Many ISPs are removing their bandwidth caps here in Canada because of the quarantines.
May actually be an opportune time to market the console.

sometimes you just want to forget about the shitty world we live in. Games have often provided a fair amount of escapism for a lot of people.

 

[AbsoluteBeginner]

Easy

PS4 - 1,84 Tflops
Resolution - 1920x1080 - 30 fps
Divide 1,84 tflops by 1920, now by 1080, and now by 30.
You get 29,57 kflops dedicaded per pixel per frame.

Now, keep the same quality, and go for 3840x2160 30 fps, multiply by 3840 and by 2160, and by 30.

You get 7,36 Tflops. 8 Tflops is overhead for possible fps fluctuations on some more demanding operations.

This is not for next gen graphics... this is for current gen graphics with the same processing per pixel as the PS4.

So basically, you would rather have 12.6TF Vega 64 in next gen consoles then RTX2080 with 2.5TF less?

Because there is much more to graphics rendering then just TFs. We are talking about chip (oberon) with higher bandwidth, pixel fillrate and tex fillrate then RTX2080

 

[Barrabas]

Or. More the reason to roll it out. People are bored at home. Digital is taking over. Many ISPs are removing their bandwidth caps here in Canada because of the quarantines.
May actually be an opportune time to market the console.

sometimes you just want to forget about the shitty world we live in. Games have often provided a fair amount of escapism for a lot of people.

Ok for me and you maybe, but try to say that to people that has lost their income or maybe a family member or a friend. For now it would be a sought after reveal for me, but I also think it would be a bit disrespectful from a company in this situation.

 

[London Geezer]

It isn't doing any damage either. No-one's going to refuse to buy PS5 if it's the product they want on account of Sony not talking about it earlier.
Because Sony haven't started marketing yet, so it's presently a one horse race.
Who said marketing doesn't count? When Sony are ready to talk, they'll spend many millions on marketing. Not talking now doesn't do any harm though and doesn't undermine the message when Sony talks.

eg. PS5 is weaker than XBSX - talk about it just before release, ignoring communicating numbers, and leave the numbers comparison to DF-type investigations reaching a limited audience while the mainstream gamers just see PS5 and its games.

PS5 is stronger than XBSX - pull a last minute reveal stealing MS's power advantage and get all core gamers' eyes on the bigger number.

Marketing can swing the messaging any way they want and it's not in any way time dependent. There's no PR move that requires early communication. It's not like if PS5 is weaker, Sony have to talk about it now to give gamers time to come to terms with it emotionally so they are willing to buy it when it releases.

Also let’s not forget the biggest point here. Right now everyone is still talking about PS5. That’s literally free publicity for Sony. When they’re ready, and when they think it appropriate in the current climate, they’ll start the marketing campaign. Until then, free publicity.
Pretty simple business strategy.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Launching might be, I don't see announcing being an issue.

 

[temesgen]

Right this is a tempest in a tea pot, nobody outside of hardcore gamers care about PS5.

Most don't even know new machines are coming this year yet...

 

[ultragpu]

How much are you going to cry if that doesn't happen tho?

Why would I cry? I'm getting both XsX and PS5 regardless, possibly upgrade to an 8k Oled if the games output at 8k too.

 

[ultragpu]

HellBlade 2 sure isn't held back by anything, it is a true generational leap in graphics in every possible way. It literally blows away everything else so far.

Bragging on pre rendered cutscene running off a PC again? This is so 2012. How about show me HB2 gameplay looking like that on any system? I'm not saying the gameplay wont look good but don't label that as fact till we see it, just like I'm not passing the final judgement on weaker systems holding back till I see it too.