Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

Discussion in 'Console Industry' started by BRiT, Jun 9, 2019.

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  1. BRiT

    BRiT Verified (╯°□°)╯
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    Stadia is 10.7 TFlops according to their statements.
     
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  2. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    Yea I would reckon that would be par for the course if they are using and have same access to the technologies that MS does.

    these are reasonable assumptions that have been proven in the past. There could be some minor differences but I expect the feature to be there.
     
  3. Jay

    Jay
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    50% TF loss during transmission
     
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  4. ultragpu

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    Oh crap I did mean 10.7 TF :), more reason to say PS5 isn't even trying here. Just imagine the marketing flop Sony would have, beaten in raw number by something released a year earlier.
     
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  5. AlphaWolf

    AlphaWolf Specious Misanthrope
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    Without reservations I can safely say that, unlike Stadia, Sony will not struggle with beating the performance of last gen.
     
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  6. RDGoodla

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    Yes it is the point. Sony only uses 7nm and MS can uses 7nm+?

    If the B0 APU is the 300mm2 chip tested now, then it means SONY uses 7nm process and still clock GPU to 2GHz. Retail APU will increase its die size due to 7nm process, and power consumption is also worse so SONY must use more expensive cooling solution.

    This is financially bad design. And it never happened that SONY flagship console uses inferior process than competitor’s console.



    B0 is Navi10 right?

    Wow do you mean he may use some PR words?


    Here is conclusion:

    1. PS5 APU tested now (300mm2)is very likely using 7nm+ process rather than 7nm since xsx seems to be in 7nm+ (56 CUs & 350mm2).

    2. B0 APU is not the latest APU. It is an early prototype, so it uses NAVI10 and 36 CUs.
     
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  7. BRiT

    BRiT Verified (╯°□°)╯
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    3. B0 APU is the latest APU. It's Navi10 with some RDNA2 features pulled in, just not focused in the Regression Tests.
     
  8. AbsoluteBeginner

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    Navi10 only means first Navi. Thats how AMD generally specifies their new cards in series.

    It does not specify if it has Navi2 features or not (oberon has, it has VRS and RT).
     
  9. Pinstripe

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    Perhaps it has to be Navi10 to maintain GCN backwards compatibility with PS4 games?

    Xbox doesn't matter because it uses DX12.
     
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  10. mpg1

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    I see theories as it might just be an early prototype for PS5 (maybe to just test BC) and that it isn't the "full chip". Even if you were to entertain that theory the PS5 dev kits have presumably been out since early 2019 (using the initial Wired article reveal in April 2019). So full chip prototypes would have been tested in 2018. As far as I can tell these leaked tests were not well before that.
     
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  11. Shifty Geezer

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    How plausible is it Sony would choose an architecture that'd be 18 months out of date for their entire future generation console once it releases in order to preserve BC that they haven't been that bothered with before? That'd be a remarkable decision, to hamstring their console for the purposes of BC. Only Nintendo has done that before and it hasn't served them at all well.
     
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  12. mpg1

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    Well I don't necessarily think it means PS5 is "hamstrung".

    But I think 2 things are fairly true:
    1. Having PS4 BC on PS5 was pretty important for them given the large user base of PS4
    2. They don't have the same level of resources, experience and expertise as MS when it comes to software compatibility so they probably can't be as flexible.
     
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  13. Shortbread

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    Assumptions to box and fit PS5 into a certain narrative. :yep2:

    Don't worry, their rocks will still be warm and comfortable once they return.
     
  14. PSman1700

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    No problem for Sony, just for fanboy console warriors.

    Yes, the difference between gaming pc's and consoles is not that big anymore in optimizations as it has been before. There's still a difference though. And yes Sony was quite different during the EE, Cell times etc, but to be fair that is more for the idea then for performance or the ease for developers.
    Also, more and more exclusives land on pc these days, even Sony's. It is just to go with the platform one likes the most. I just ment, if you want TF, high specs, a console is not so much about that, it is more about extracting as much as possible out of what you get.

    It could be a devkit with target specs, without RT hardware. Maybe RT wasn't mature enough this summer.

    True, gaming isn't even so important to me, but i like hardware developments.

    Sony perhaps made the better choice there iMO, a middleground model the same idea as the PS4 was, which was a success. Also prevents 1st party games also being limited by the lower end SKU. A smaller design/shape with less power draw from the wall. The differences in graphics don't matter to 90% of the people buying those things, most see those things as toys, they dont care about teraflop numbers.
    For those that care about it, well ye, that's a hard pill to swallow then, in special when MS has RT/VRS advantages somewhere.

    I haven't really read into it but, what exactly can be seen as 'RT hardware'? It could be done on the GPU somehow, non-NV style, and still be called hardware in a grey zone? I really don't know just thought of that. I think both will have the same solution to it, perhaps MS has more cores or something.
    Also, the oberon kit could be without RT for a reason, it wasn't mature enough this summer.

    A 9.2TF PS5 if it is Navi2 would be about the same performance or more in the end though? Also, Stadia could be upgraded in the future with more powerfull hardware, it is pointless to try to surpass that with a traditional console. Besides that, i don't think Sony or MS are worried so much about Stadia regarding the home console market. Not in the TF war atleast.

    Is that true or a guess?

    This option is one not many like, therefor we leave that one out.

    Maybe there was truth to that late 2019 release afterall?
     
  15. Shortbread

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    Sure. Sony is going to risk advancing the "next-generation experience" for the sakes of BC for those 7-8% of Playstation users that will actually use it. :rolleyes:

    This sounds like complete fanboy nonsense. Just like the fanboy nonsense where Sony is a far better company at hardware designs because of their decades of experience and expertise in CE hardware.
     
  16. iroboto

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    Games are slightly different now. This gen has been chock full of GaaS titles that would die if next gen triggered with no BC. I think that would be detrimental to their player base considering how much was invested in Destiny.

    this doesn’t even consider that we have now moved to enhanced versions of older titles. Something we also didn’t have in the past.

    I think a lot of people would be disappointed at the lack of BC effort if Sony didn’t pursue it. I know some people may not care because they only buy new games. But this isn’t the case for everyone.

    going into another launch year with a limited library while The competition is going in with a massive enhanced back catalog that is readily available at a mere $15 a month sounds risky.
     
    #3036 iroboto, Dec 28, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2019
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  17. MrFox

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    People kept saying this before ps4p launched (sony stuck with old gcn version cause they suck at BC), and it ended up with a gpu with a more advanced feature set than MS who launched a year later.

    You really should go read the latest patents from Cerny, it shows their approach is more advanced than a software emulation and forcing high level access. There are no limitations or requirements for next gen hardware from that perspective, other than gating different sections, and adding low level translation layers. With this they can do boost modes and nearly 100% perfect compatibility, and practically cycle-exact fallback modes, which software emulation cannot do. If they succeed with this plan, they end up with the best of both worlds. It defintely requires a massive expertise to pull it off, from hardware and software alike.
     
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  18. Proelite

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    If they don't have BC with PS4 that's going to be some great ammo for MS PR.

    We'll get more details about it in the future. Sony's BC story hampered them in the PS4 Pro and it might have also done so in the PS5. It certainly would have in the 2019 PS5! When the 2019 PS5 gets leaked, itll be interesting.
     
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  19. PSman1700

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    I think it is more then just 7 to 8% that will use the BC function, especially if it means improved performance, a potentional last of us 2 at 60fps seems very interesting, to many i guess. That is if you don't have to rebuy the game or pay something to be able to do that ofcourse.

    Patents don't, or mosty, don't mean they actually get to be in the product like that. It could be for a good read but don't take it as something we will see as described.
     
  20. mpg1

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    1. Having BC means Sony will have a chance to lock in 10's of millions of users who spent money on PS4 games over the last 6-7 years. Definetly more than just 7-8%. Would be a massive selling point.

    2. Not really fanboy nonsense. Windows has been around for decades is probably the most compatible piece of software there is. I don't see how that doesn't translate to Xbox.
     
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