Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

[Deleted member 11852]

Good share there. At least that is responsible to post that, i suspect not everyone there has ever read that or knows that, but that is normal for selective reading.

There's a lot more traffic there but I think posters and mods do a good job of posting roundup info, which is then kept up to date. E.g. just look at post 1 in the current thread. The whole Oberon performance leak is lunacy. It is what is it, a performance test of six-month old hardware configurations but a whole bunch of people universally accept this for PS5s retail GPU despite it having no RT hardware which Cerny says PS5 does. The resetera ban hammers must be glowing hot this morning.

Will PS5 have a 9Tf GPU? Sure, maybe. I don't know but this sounds a way more probable ask given the solid state tech and what it is reasonable to expect in terms of more higher-bandwidth memory available to games. Like Shifty said, I am sure Sony are be really keen to hit that sweet $/£399-450 price point given going modestly priced consoles has worked well for them in the past. Will XSX have a 12Tf GPU? Sure, maybe. At a higher price point than you can deliver a 9Tf GPU because yields.

I think the piece of the puzzle that may explain any Tf disparity's and which fits reporters like Jason Schreier hearing devs saying both consoles (excl. Lockhart) are pretty close, is which baseline architecture are you comparing to what. AMD's RDNA Whitepaper indicates 9 RDNA Tf being roughly approximate to 12 GCN Tf that today's consoles use. Are the 9Tf and 12Tf metrics the same performance in different measurements? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

But give it a few days or a week and the next ludicrous leak/speculation will drop. It's only a matter of time

 

[Jay]

Good share there. I retract my statement, I am wrong. At least that is responsible [of them] to post that, i suspect not everyone there has ever read that or knows that, but that is normal for selective reading.

Given that Jensen gets his info from water-cooler chit chat past to ex employees, that Resetera post says he could have contacts in industry.
Wasn't that what people was discussing before how leaks happen via chit chat? Or was he/she saying they was the initial dev or something.

I don't follow the insiders so I don't know what they claim of themselves.
I just take them all with pinch of salt and used for points of discussion. Probably for the best until actually get many confirmed data points, and with potentially people having seen docs.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Man, this thread. We're still likely at least 9-10 months from either console launching. And we're already getting these levels of superlatives thrown around and the sky is falling posts.

People need to relax, they are only gaming consoles.

Regards,
SB

 

[Jay]

But give it a few days or a week and the next ludicrous leak/speculation will drop. It's only a matter of time

Gives us something to talk about, as long as you don't take it all to heart.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Man, this thread. We're still likely at least 9-10 months from either console launching. And we're already getting these levels of superlatives thrown around and the sky is falling posts.

Reveals will be nearer. I expect Sony to unimaginatively follow their PS4 reveal timetable so late February or very early March but GDC in San Francisco is mid-March, so more information will leak whether either company wants it too or not. Both companies may as well get out ahead of this and control the narrative.

 

[ultragpu]

So how often do retail units hit their target specs? Did Jason not mention how both of them are trying to surpass 9.7 TF Stadia? I guess Anaconda not only makes it but goes way further and beyond while PS5 falls short by half Teraflop? Remember he's specifically referring to the number of TFs not in actual performance which we all know even 9.2 RDNA TF would surpass it easily.
Granted it's much easier for Ana to do since it'll be more costly.

 

[Jupiter]

He also stated that both next gen consoles have VRS. Something else to keep an eye out for in the upcoming months. If PS5 lacks it then he is in real trouble on Era.

https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd-rdna-2-gpu-dx12-variable-rate-shading-xbox-series-x


^^^ Not sure if searching in Vulkan and Linux driver reveals anything, as PS5 likely uses GNM.

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2019/12/12/microsoft-unveils-xbox-series-x/

I can't confirm VRS being MS exclusive. As for the OS, I don't think it's going to be that much different from current gen. IMO

VRS is nothing really special since it's easy to implement and it does't need a fallback. Anyone can implement this. Mesh/Primitive Shaders are the real deal. This is only supported on the very latest HW and if you want to develop games with it in mind they won't go on old HW unless you'r doing two code-paths.

 

[mpg1]

Resetera on full meltdown. Few rational takes, lots of coping.

Also the constant "GCN Flops" and "RDNA Flops" talk is stupid.

 

[AbsoluteBeginner]

Resetera on full meltdown. Few rational takes, lots of coping.

Also the constant "GCN Flops" and "RDNA Flops" talk is stupid.

Yea, seems to be pretty cut and dry.

36CU 2.0GHZ 64ROPs 9.2TF 256bit bus 16-18Gbps memory

56CU 1.7GHZ 64ROPs* 12TF 320bit bus 14-18Gbps memory

*Could be 96 if 3 WGPs are intact

 

[RDGoodla]

Could be. B0 is after A0, and A0 is from August (at least we know it since then).

9.2TF Navi ~ 13TF GCN. If Sony sent dev kits in late 2018, and this is when 13TF leaked, they must have been 13TF GCN.

B0 is still Navi 10, so no hardware ray tracing.
It doesn’t match official info (HW ray tracing ).

So things are: 36CUs no hardware ray tracing, 300mm2 size. And the 56CUs with hardware ray tracing is 350mm2 (area info is from Taiwan BBS).

What???

 

[Janne Kylliö]

So things are: 36CUs no hardware ray tracing, 300mm2 size. And the 56CUs with hardware ray tracing is 350mm2 (Area info is from Taiwan BBS).

What???

7nm vs. 7nm+

 

[AbsoluteBeginner]

B0 is still Navi 10, so no hardware ray tracing.
It doesn’t match official info (HW ray tracing ).

So things are: 36CUs no hardware ray tracing, 300mm2 size. And the 56CUs with hardware ray tracing is 350mm2 (area info is from Taiwan BBS).

What???

There is no HW RT because it was not point of the test. It says nothing if there is or isnt one.

There is no RDNA1/2 divisions in consoles. Same as PS4Pro having rapid packed math and not being Vega. When these consoles were designed they were designed with parts Sony and MS wanted, not ones which will be released in PC space with exact date.

 

[McHuj]

B0 is still Navi 10, so no hardware ray tracing.
It doesn’t match official info (HW ray tracing ).

So things are: 36CUs no hardware ray tracing, 300mm2 size. And the 56CUs with hardware ray tracing is 350mm2 (area info is from Taiwan BBS).

What???

We don't know anything about any HW raytracing. Cerny's statement:

There is ray-tracing acceleration in the GPU hardware

Is ambiguous enough to cover anything as simple as a few additional ISA updates to help with RT algorithms to a separate dedicated hardware block in the APU. He gave no details. Even in between those two extremes there are plenty of middle ground solutions that could have been implemented.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

No way in hell would MS sell Anaconda for $599 or even $550, it's DOA.

Your argument ignores completely basic economics. What does it cost to make Anaconda? Start there. Once you have your BOM, what kind of loss might MS be willing to take? Maybe it isn't $600; perhaps MS can get it out for $500, but then again perhaps Sony can get their box out for $350. That part of the puzzle is completely missing in your arguments that look solely at performance, and then you and others effectively are slagging off Sony for making what you consider dumb choices without even knowing what choices they've made, criticising them based on your own guesswork.

Judgements should never be delivered without sufficient evidence to make them fair. Say what you would prefer as a Sony fan, but hold off the criticising and complaining until the products are announced.

 

[mpg1]

Yea, seems to be pretty cut and dry.

36CU 2.0GHZ 64ROPs 9.2TF 256bit bus 16-18Gbps memory

56CZ 1.7GHZ 64ROPs* 12TF 320bit bus 14-18Gbps memory

*Could be 96 if 3 WGPs are intact

THAT'S 12 GCN FLOPS!!!!!! YOU FORGOT TO USE THE SPECIAL MATH CONVERSION WE MADE UP!!!!

But in all seriousness it's becoming clearer to me that one console maker decided to make a ~300W console...the other didn't. It's pretty simple.

Nothing wrong with it if it is the case especially if they are lower in price. I just hope Sony has put some focus on cooling so that fan noise isn't an issue. Weaker and noiser would be bad even if cheaper.

 

[mpg1]

Interesting comment from Resetera, no idea of it's veracity:

According to these regression tests...
PS5 has 18% pixel, geometry, texture engine advantage.
Xsx has a 30% compute advantage, 25% BW advantage. Possible RT+ VRS advantage.

More than anything I think the BW deficit is the most concerning.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/ne...-see-staff-post.159131/page-292#post-27757852

 

[AbsoluteBeginner]

Interesting comment from Resetera, no idea of it's veracity:

According to these regression tests...
PS5 has 18% pixel, geometry, texture engine advantage.
Xsx has a 30% compute advantage, 25% BW advantage. Possible RT+ VRS advantage.

More than anything I think the BW deficit is the most concerning.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/ne...-see-staff-post.159131/page-292#post-27757852

Thats assuming Arden has 64ROPs. We only know it has 56CUs.

In any case, seems Rogame was wrong. There is referrence to VRS and RT in Oberon.

 

[mpg1]

My theory about backward compatibility was probably correct!!

"18WGP for native and BC1, 9 for BC2."

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ne...-see-staff-post.159131/page-291#post-27757415

Basically implying a 36CU GPU that disables half.

 

[iroboto]

Cerny is an actual source. If he says there is RT hardware in the GPU; I’m going to give him a pretty high probability that he’s right. If people said they wouldn’t give it a doubt that would also be a reasonable take.

leaker information doesn’t have all the info. I would also debate how much that information is accurate wrt PS5

 

[AbsoluteBeginner]

Cerny is an actual source. If he says there is RT hardware in the GPU; I’m going to give him a pretty high probability that he’s right. If people said they wouldn’t give it a doubt that would also be a reasonable take.

leaker information doesn’t have all the info. I would also debate how much that information is accurate wrt PS5

Thats the thing. There is RT and VRS in Oberon.