ATI & XBox

[Dave Baumann]

OK.

I'm now fairly certain that R500 is not the Xbox part, but R600 is. R500 is something entirely different from what I now understand.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Can you share any of the information that brought you to this conclusion?

With the rumors of r500 being much sooner than expected, I rather expected this, but that's just timeframe guessing.

 

[nAo]

I hate when Dave acts like this...c'mon..we want to know more than that!

 

[Urian]

Any info about N5?

 

[jvd]

OK.

I'm now fairly certain that R500 is not the Xbox part, but R600 is. R500 is something entirely different from what I now understand.

R500 = r420 with p.s 3 and v.s 3 support .


R600 = dx 10 part .


Only thing that makes sense at this point .


Esp if rumors of the r500 coming out in december are true .

 

[pc999]

OK.

I'm now fairly certain that R500 is not the Xbox part, but R600 is. R500 is something entirely different from what I now understand.

nothing more

I agree with jvd DX10/next at least for XB2

 

[jvd]

OK.

I'm now fairly certain that R500 is not the Xbox part, but R600 is. R500 is something entirely different from what I now understand.

nothing more

I agree with jvd DX10/next at least for XB2

Its not much of a leap. With nv40 supporting all the dx 9 features and r420 supporting most of them in 2 years or a year and ahlf we should start seeing the first dx 10 versions.

 

[pc999]

It is the only big leap (that we know) in software/hardware devolepment by this time frame , would be very strange if MS did not take part of it.

 

[jvd]

It is the only big leap (that we know) in software/hardware devolepment by this time frame , would be very strange if MS did not take part of it.

I meant that xbox 2 supporting dx 10 or dxnext is not a big of a leap.

If anyone is going to support dx 10 then it be ms .

 

[pc999]

I meant that xbox 2 supporting dx 10 or dxnext is not a big of a leap.

Virtual memory and so looks like a big leap to me

 

[Brimstone]

The current R500 is being worked on ATI West and is slated to be a .90 nm part correct? The R600 I'd assume is going to be a .65 nm VPU.

I still think MS won't launch a new system in 2005, but instead go head to head with the PS3. Have the VPU include mimimal eDRAM and spend the transitors on shaders, while putting in GDDR-4 for a bandwidth bananza.

 

[Megadrive1988]

OK.

I'm now fairly certain that R500 is not the Xbox part, but R600 is. R500 is something entirely different from what I now understand.

well if Xbox 2 is going to use R600, then that means it's going to be the old R500++ souped up with whatever advancements ATI can make. since the old R500 became R600 when the R400 became the new R500.

have I got this right, at least from what you know and can tell us Dave?

 

[Guden Oden]

R500 = r420 with p.s 3 and v.s 3 support .

No. R500 is based on the old R400, which was intended to be a different design to the R3xx series, on which the R420 is based on. However, R400 was deemed to be too radical for the timeframe it was intended to be released in (read: would incur NV30-like development problems for ATi) and was scrapped and thus R420, a re-hashed/improved (pick the one you prefer) product was brought into play.

So R500 would be more than just R420 with shaders 3.0...

Damn. I wonder how many megs these unified drivers will consume when they have to keep covering more and more hardware architectures... They're already like 30MB apiece in international language versions. Gaaacckkk! Luckily that won't be an issue on a console!

 

[jvd]

No. R500 is based on the old R400, which was intended to be a different design to the R3xx series, on which the R420 is based on. However, R400 was deemed to be too radical for the timeframe it was intended to be released in (read: would incur NV30-like development problems for ATi) and was scrapped and thus R420, a re-hashed/improved (pick the one you prefer) product was brought into play.

Well i was under the impression that the r420 was a mix of the r400 and the r300 series .

Which would mean the r500 could just add more from the original r400 than is currently in the r420. Like p.s and v.s 3.0

 

[V3]

So its a code name change

I mean we hardly know what's R500. Heck they're speculating madly on R420 over at the other forum

They can call it R1000 for all I care

 

[Megadrive1988]

I would think that R420 is indeed a mix of R3xx and R400.

R500 is now R400++

R600 is now R500++


R500 will have VS/PS 3.0 but would it also have VS/PS 4.0? maybe not.

Shader Model 4.0 would probably be for R600.

so Xbox 2 will be SM4/DX10 capable, and hopefully the speed to make SM3 run very well.

now assuming things are no more complicated than that, then the question turns to N5/GCNext. is it also going to use something based on R600, but tailored for Nintendo, or is it a totally-custom-to-Nintendo-only design, as Flipper was?

I'm betting on a modified R600 for Nintendo. at least as modified as the Xbox 2 variant. PC-Xbox2-Nintendo will all have a commen graphics platform in 2006. not 100% identical, but a similar technology base.

of course, I could be completely wrong....

 

[Brimstone]

I would think that R420 is indeed a mix of R3xx and R400.

R500 is now R400++

R600 is now R500++


R500 will have VS/PS 3.0 but would it also have VS/PS 4.0? maybe not.

Shader Model 4.0 would probably be for R600.

so Xbox 2 will be SM4/DX10 capable, and hopefully the speed to make SM3 run very well.

now assuming things are no more complicated than that, then the question turns to N5/GCNext. is it also going to use something based on R600, but tailored for Nintendo, or is it a totally-custom-to-Nintendo-only design, as Flipper was?

I'm betting on a modified R600 for Nintendo. at least as modified as the Xbox 2 variant. PC-Xbox2-Nintendo will all have a commen graphics platform in 2006. not 100% identical, but a similar technology base.

of course, I could be completely wrong....

R500 fully DX 9 PS/VS 3.0

R600 DX 10

I have no idea how the legal side things will work out, but Nvidia and Microsoft wrangled over Shader technology in the past if I remember correctly. I very much doubt Nintendo will get advanced access to what MS is working on and certainly MS doesn't want a repeat of the Nvidia debacle.

 

[Megadrive1988]

R500 fully DX 9 PS/VS 3.0

R600 DX 10

yes, I think so. that's basicly what I said in different words.


I'm also thinking about all the graphics engineers and graphics technology MS has. they acquired the Cagent team (former 3DO Systems) who built the M2 and MX chipsets. they were ahead of then-current PC graphics. could it be that MS is jointly working on Xbox 2 graphics processor with ATI, with the graphics resources MS has?

Nintendo probably wants a fast efficient cost-effective chip. probably don't care about the latest shader techology, would be happy enough with VS/PS 3.0.

there are so many possibilities.

we may very well be still asking the same questions 1 year from now.

 

[Dave Baumann]

No. R500 is based on the old R400

That is the popular thought, thanks to the new report that came out when ATI got the XB2 deal, however I now have clear information that points this assumption to being incorrect.

Will you hear more? Yes, hopefully, but not just yet.

 

[Megadrive1988]

That is the popular thought, thanks to the new report that came out when ATI got the XB2 deal, however I now have clear information that points this assumption to being incorrect.

Will you hear more? Yes, hopefully, but not just yet.

hey that's interesting. maybe even good. I dunno, being on the outside looking in.

maybe the R500 is *still* the original R500 that ATI mentioned at the Merrill Lynch technology conference (or some conference) in May of 2002, before R300 launched.

edited link:
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33649238


below is just more speculation

R500 = ATI West?

R600 = ATI East?

Xbox 2 VPU = joint ATI East-Microsoft effort based on R600 + whatever MS brings to the table

GCNext VPU = ATI West, based on R500, or totally custom chip unrelated to Radeon families.

could be wrong here too. maybe its as i said before: Xbox2 and GCNext will use a commen architecture, R600, with each having specific differences.