ATI - PS3 is Unrefined

[London Geezer]

I wasn't talking about the dual output, i was just talking about "games in 1080p" which is what you said...

In short, we won't see 1080p PS3 games, period.

I probably misread you.

I also think the dual screen thing is a bit of a waste and i couldn't care less about it to be honest as i'll never ever use it.

I do think that 1080p will be an option in some games. If it happens, it happens, if it doesn't, it doesn't. I won't have a 1080p display for years anyway.

 

[Alpha_Spartan]

How did you get the RSX White Papers?

So I need white papers to state the obvious fact that the RSX has a PC heritage?

 

[expletive]

Okay, perhaps you're right and PS3 could support 1080p (with trivial graphics, of course due to obvious bandwidth limitations), I just don't see people playing the game in 720p with the secondary display in 1080p.

I don't think it's "a bit much" at all. In fact, it's probably the only thing I'm damn certain about. Face it, the 1080p came free with the RSX's PC heritage, it's not like the rest of the system is built around supporting this for anything other than movies (128 bit graphics memory bus-width). There is a recent Phil Harrison interview where he only mentions 1080p for BR movies. Then there is a Sony presentation I believe that shows dual HDMI for things like extended displays and secondary displays with trivial graphics.

I'm sure Sony could upscale PSX and PS2 games to 1080p just to say they have it, but all we'll get is Enhanced JaggyVision (TM). However, I don't believe they'll do this. The lion's share of PS3 titles will be in 720p/1080i. Don't hold your breath for MGS4 in 1080p though. I'll continue to spout this until I'm blue in the face.

We'll probably see as many 1080p PS3 games as there were 720p Xbox 1 games. They will be there but for 2 reasons theyll be very sparse:

1. No one will have a TV that can play 1080p games
2. The tradeoff from 720p will be eye candy/framerate in a vast majority of the games with decent next-gen grfx

 

[Dave Baumann]

How did you get the RSX White Papers?

Sony described it as "legacy PC" at GDCE this year.

 

[Alpha_Spartan]

I wasn't talking about the dual output, i was just talking about "games in 1080p" which is what you said...


I probably misread you.

I also think the dual screen thing is a bit of a waste and i couldn't care less about it to be honest as i'll never ever use it.

I do think that 1080p will be an option in some games. If it happens, it happens, if it doesn't, it doesn't. I won't have a 1080p display for years anyway.

I conceded that some PS3 games may be in 1080p like puzzle games and other games with relatively trivial graphics.

 

[Phil]

So I need white papers to state the obvious fact that the RSX has a PC heritage?

You are obviously arguing in favour of the claims that RSX is nothing but a soaped up G70 using an assumption as evidence. I don't think anyone needs to point out the obvious?

If dual HDMI would not be in Sony's roadmap somewhere down the line in some form, I wouldn't hesitate to think they would get rid of it on the spot.

 

[weaksauce]

Apparently it's a theoretical number that is in no way related to real-world performance.

Everything is theoretical, we don't know nothing else eh.

I was referring to that "2 shader ops per pipe per cycle", gives it some bad numbers..

Also RSX has better dot product..

Ok it doesn't have a third more transistors but Xenos has still quite fewer than r520, thus don't think you really can compare them. I'm thinking xenos is worse.

 

[expletive]

You are obviously arguing in favour of the claims that RSX is nothing but a soaped up G70 using an assumption as evidence. I don't think anyone needs to point out the obvious?

If dual HDMI would not be in Sony's roadmap somewhere down the line in some form, I wouldn't hesitate to think they would get rid of it on the spot.

I disagree here. I'm sure the marketing department at Sony was drooling over the ability to put together a slide tlaking about dual 1080p whereas the competition couldnt even do a single 1080p.

The only thing keeping them from sticking it in there would have been the cost and at that point theyve already bought the TDMS and paid the HDMI licensing fee for the first port...

 

[London Geezer]

To me the only benefit of having 2 HDMI ports is that if some Xmas turkey next year gets stuck into one of the ports and stops working, there's another one ready for use!!! You never know what happens in these xmas parties...

 

[Alpha_Spartan]

You are obviously arguing in favour of the claims that RSX is nothing but a soaped up G70 using an assumption as evidence. I don't think anyone needs to point out the obvious?

You must be one of the people that believe the silly notion that the RSX was designed from conception to fabrication JUST for the PS3. I believe that the RSX is based on G70 family of GPUs.

Leave it to the delusional to believe that a "suped-up" G70 is a piece of crap not worthy of the PS3's greatness. But don't let me spoil your grandiose dreams of a multi-core, SPU-powered, mega GPU that runs at 32C in a $300 console the size of a PS2.

 

[blakjedi]

Only when they wanted to talk about HD and how their console is more hi-def than the Xbox 360's hi-def. Not only is the PS3 "real" HD at 1080p, but it can do two 1080p screens at once. This marketing bullet is disingenuous at best.

.Sis

REAL HD begins at 720p. Period. 1080p maybe beautiful thing but On a sixty inch TV set at 12 feet or more I defy anyone to tell the difference between 720p and 1080p - anyone. U have to be within 1.7 screen widths for your eye to resolve the difference between the two resolutions. Unless you have 20/10 vision.

 

[expletive]

REAL HD begins at 720p. Period. 1080p maybe beautiful thing but On a sixty inch TV set at 12 feet or more I defy anyone to tell the difference between 720p and 1080p - anyone. U have to be within 1.7 screen widths for your eye to resolve the difference between the two resolutions. Unless you have 20/10 vision.

Not to mention that none of Sony's new SXRD TVs can accept 1080p...

 

[Phil]

I disagree here. I'm sure the marketing department at Sony was drooling over the ability to put together a slide tlaking about dual 1080p whereas the competition couldnt even do a single 1080p.

The only thing keeping them from sticking it in there would have been the cost and at that point theyve already bought the TDMS and paid the HDMI licensing fee for the first port...

So it could be a gimmick! So? The fact of the matter is, it's there for some reason and it has potential for those developers that wish to use it and those consumers that can. I can count countless nice little features in any kind of consumer-electronics device that are there and aren't a necessity, yet they *can* represent a nice addition for consumers outthere, even if for the most part most don't use it.

Are you even arguing anything specific, because I really do fail to see the point you're trying to make. Fact is: PS3 has dual HDMI support, if it's used or not is up in the sky at this point and while I hate to say it, so are the exact reasons Sony chose to have it. As has been pointed out: Phil Harrison made some possible reference to how it could be used - if you agree with that or not is really not of any relevance here. It's a feature, just like the media center features of the Xbox360 or the added ports / media-center functionality that PS3 will enable. There's really no point in arguing this further.

 

[Sis]

Just having Blu-ray itself makes it "higher-def" than Xbox360. Thats a fact.

No, it only means that the PS3 has a feature that the Xbox 360 lacks.

How so? The PS3 can output two 1080p signals at once. They're very sincere and upfront on that point.

I absolutely agree, but only if we re-word the PR like this: "The PS3 can output two 1080p signals at once. Please note that other than a Picture Slideshow application included with the PS3, nothing will ever take advantage of this."

To me the only benefit of having 2 HDMI ports is that if some Xmas turkey next year gets stuck into one of the ports and stops working, there's another one ready for use!!! You never know what happens in these xmas parties...

I need to get invited to your Xmas parties. In fact, this is what I look like when a turkey is stuck in one of my ports and stops working:

.Sis

 

[expletive]

So it could be a gimmick! So? The fact of the matter is, it's there for some reason and it has potential for those developers that wish to use it and those consumers that can. I can count countless nice little features in any kind of consumer-electronics device that are there and aren't a necessity, yet they *can* represent a nice addition for consumers outthere, even if for the most part most don't use it.

Are you even arguing anything specific, because I really do fail to see the point you're trying to make. Fact is: PS3 has dual HDMI support, if it's used or not is up in the sky at this point and while I hate to say it, so are the exact reasons Sony chose to have it. As has been pointed out: Phil Harrison made some possible reference to how it could be used - if you agree with that or not is really not of any relevance here. It's a feature, just like the media center features of the Xbox360 or the added ports / media-center functionality that PS3 will enable. There's really no point in arguing this further.

Take it easy, no ones arguing. My original point on dual HDMI was that it clues us into RSX's heritage not the virtues/drawbacks of dual hdmi. I didnt say its a gimmick, just responding to your comment that if it didnt have an obvious use Sopny would ditch it, i disagree.

No one is saying its a problem or a disadvantage or stupid, just that it probably wont be used.

And seeing as this is a forum, most everyones opinion and whether or not we agree has relevance here. We're not creating a newspaper, we're interacting on a forum where youre supposed to share ideas and opinions.

 

[mckmas8808]

No, it only means that the PS3 has a feature that the Xbox 360 lacks.
I absolutely agree, but only if we re-word the PR like this: "The PS3 can output two 1080p signals at once. Please note that other than a Picture Slideshow application included with the PS3, nothing will ever take advantage of this."
.Sis

Wow when and where did you find my missing flux compacitor? You from the future guys are really funny.

 

[weaksauce]

Could it be used for sonys 4k*2k projector? Because usually one output tops at 2,5k something.

 

[expletive]

Could it be used for sonys 4k*2k projector? Because usually one output tops at 2,5k something.

Who's 4k projector will it be powering exactly and what will it be using for source material?

 

[Entropy]

Sony described it as "legacy PC" at GDCE this year.

What I'm still wondering is - well, OK, does this have any appreciable significance?
There are well honed tools for the architecture, that's a plus.
It may not utilize limitations in rendering resolutions, but at 1920x1080 how large would the gains have been, and at what cost? I honestly don't know.
It may not project forward much in terms of feature set, but what features whould you like to see included? Would the transistor reallocation from the existing design be preferable overall? I don't know about this either.
It does introduce an independent 35GB/s communication link with the Cell processor, and probably not without reason. So what are the reasons, more specifically? Somebody has to have some pretty solid idea.

These are a few non-trivial questions that could actually shed some light on the reasons for, and consequences of the decision to with the RSX.

 

[blakjedi]

Who's 4k projector will it be powering exactly and what will it be using for source material?

Qualia projectors (30K) and teh derivative "ruby" have 1920X1080 matrices and can input/output real 1080p. However you need 10K minumum and a dark room to get started.... 1080p and a dark room might be too tempting for some of you guys to resist....