ATI - PS3 is Unrefined

[Panajev2001a]

Don't forget that Xenos *IS* also the memory controller/northbridge.

I am not forgetting that, but you can see that if the XeCPU needs data and you have to have Xenos write it into UMA memory and then start the LOAD from RAM (cache miss) it takes longer .

 

[tema]

Bookmark thread!

It will be funny if an unrefined console will be able to clearly outdo a refined console, very funny..

very funny indeed.

 

[Titanio]

I thought he was saying that Xenos can read directly from Xenon's L2 cache, but Xenos cannot write directly into Xenon's L2 cache, but has to pass through memory... I myself cannot remember it now, so I would have to go check...

This is the case from my own memory also. The cache streaming is one-way IIRC.

As badass as that sounds, using another HDTV for that seems kinda wasteful. You can use a 20" SDTV for that stuff.

You may be able to. Phil Harrison seems to say in the E3 Eurogamer interview that you'd be able to pipe to a second screen via the regular AV-out, as well as the second HDMI-out - so it doesn't have to be a HDMI/DVI-ready TV. Then again, would it have to be a HDMI-to-analog cable either?

"Eurogamer: You showed demonstrations of the console running multiple applications across the two HDMI outputs - is that something which is actually built into the system's operating systems, or do games have to support it specifically?

Phil Harrison: Depending on the features that you exploit, some of it's handled by the OS, some of it will be handled by the applications. I should also explain that although yes, there are two HDMI outputs, you don't have to have only high-def devices attached to PlayStation 3 - there's also a standard PlayStation AV Multi-Out connector. So one of them could be an HD output, and one of them could be an AV Multi going to the TV. "

 

[Geo]

And we only have to wait until about 2009 to find out! Ev'body mark your calendars. . .

 

[Brimstone]

Not to distract from the thread but dual HDMI and the new Sony SRXD HDTVs will go hand in hand. Especially for multi-tasking or online gaming if Sony does things right. These TVs have a nice split screen functionality and micr-screen functionality 3/4 and letter box at the corner.

Playing Socom and having your eye-toy set video conferencing with the rest of your team, or Madden just to see their reaction when you take 'em out or throw a touch down, will be priceless.

Speng.

Absolutley, having optional dual screen output would be killer addition for so many games. Tactical style games like Socom, Ghost Recon, and Rainbow 6 could utilize a second screen to display important map data, that improves your gameplay experience. In sports games like NCAA football, when it comes to managing your team for recruiting, showing more data at one time would make things much more pleasant. You don't need the second screen rendered with 3d data, but simply 2d grahics and information.

Not everyone is going to go out of their way to stick two displays side by side, but it's sure is as a sweet option to have and I hope it comes to fruition.

 

[speng]

As badass as that sounds, using another HDTV for that seems kinda wasteful. You can use a 20" SDTV for that stuff.

You don't need another HDTV, one HDTV like the XBR1 have Dual HDMI Input slots, and split screen or 3/4-1/4 options.

Twin-Viewâ„¢ feature allows you to watch two programs side by side with the ability to zoom in on one picture and listen to the program in the selected window. You can watch pictures from two different sources simultaneously.

Speng.

 

[SiBoy]

I'm guessing that Sony didn't pay for JUST the design. The Nvidia engineers were part of the deal. My belief is that Sony approached Nvidia about a possible graphics processor while Nvidia was developing the G70. An agreement was made and the RSX was borne out of the G70 line of processors.

I mean, some people want it both ways. They want to believe that Sony and Nvidia were working together for three years AND they want to believe that somehow the RSX is a completely new design based on G80+ technology. That would make more sense if Sony and Nvidia just recently started their partnership and if the PS3 was going to ship in 2007, but alas that isn't the case. Sony never fabbed a complex GPU in its life and so it makes sense that they'll get their start with a mature design, not something new that even TSMC will have a hard time with.

Agreed. Usually the most plausible explanation is the right one. It doesn't mean the RSX will suck, so there is no need for everyone to get defensive.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

After all the shit Nvidia went through with MS, I don't think they wanted to court another console maker. IIRC, Nvidia made statements about how they need to focus more on the PC side of their business and that consoles were a distraction.

I thought nVidia had MS over a barrel and made stupid money milking MS for overpriced components as they themselves benefited from process shrinks which they didn't pass on to MS. In what way was XB1 a bad deal for nVidia that they wouldn't want to engage in again?

 

[Brimstone]

Still two HD LCD displays with OCB technology side by side would be awesome. OCB LCD displays have a much wider viewing angle and faster response times than regular LCD displays making them ideal for a 32:9 aspect ratio gamer. The response time is faster than a CRT offers, allowing for moving graphics on screen to stay razor sharp at all times.

 

[Geo]

It doesn't mean the RSX will suck, so there is no need for everyone to get defensive.

If anything, I would tend to think it likely that PS3 launch titles will be more fully realized on the graphics end than initial XB360 titles for that very reason. G70 characteristics, strengths, limitations, interfaces, etc being much better understood by devs pre-launch.

In fact, you could, if you like, read Huddy's comments on long-term vs brute force that way --as being a statement that XB360 shines in the long-term, while PS3 wins the early rounds.

But then that also depends abit on when PS3 actually launches and when we expect the first round of really native XB360 titles.

 

[wco81]

You don't need another HDTV, one HDTV like the XBR1 have Dual HDMI Input slots, and split screen or 3/4-1/4 options.

Twin-Viewâ„¢ feature allows you to watch two programs side by side with the ability to zoom in on one picture and listen to the program in the selected window. You can watch pictures from two different sources simultaneously.

Speng.

Twin-View on my XBR only lets you have one of the images be from a component/DVI input. The other one must be S-Video.

In Twin-view mode, you're losing a lot of a clarity of the component/DVI source so you'd want another display ideally.

 

[dubyateeeff]

I'd be the last person to admit it, but the truth is that the 7800GTX is a pretty powerful piece of hardware,

Competition gives huge praise to GTX/RSX, we can all breath out (except the x2 horde).

Guess RSX will stomp a hole in X-GPU. (nah, I dont think so, I think they will both be great with different strengths).

This thread started out as "oh, they have a red ferrari, but red is such a girly colour". And people get stuck on the girly part. Anyway, fun thread, lots of good info.

 

[mckmas8808]

This thread started out as "oh, they have a red ferrari, but red is such a girly colour". And people get stuck on the girly part. Anyway, fun thread, lots of good info.

They also said that Sony's ferrari is old and can only do 0-60 in 5 seconds, while their ferrari is new and can do 0-60 in 3.9 seconds. Big difference.

 

[Geo]

Ooooh, car parables! Cool. What I got out of it was "Their Ferrari kills on the straightaway, but we believe ours will catch them in the curves --and looking ahead, we see more curves than straightaways."

 

[expletive]

Using a secondary screen for non-gameplay functionality. Put your video chat window on it, so it doesn't interrupt your playing. Access the rest of the functionality using it too, while you or someone else plays on the "primary" screen. These new systems are about on-demand functionality and essentially multitasking, so being able to present to two screens could be quite convenient.

Convenient except for the fact that you now have to have a 2nd display in your entertainment center (or whatever) and the person youre chatting with has to watch you stare at your main game screen while you barely manage to hold a conversation.

 

[BTOA]

In fact, you could, if you like, read Huddy's comments on long-term vs brute force that way --as being a statement that XB360 shines in the long-term, while PS3 wins the early rounds.

Can you explain or link to this Huddy's comments on long-term vs brute force, because from what I get out of PS3's specs, it has both of those you just mentioned.

Long-term=Cell
brute force=RSX+Cell

 

[expletive]

Not to distract from the thread but dual HDMI and the new Sony SRXD HDTVs will go hand in hand. Especially for multi-tasking or online gaming if Sony does things right. These TVs have a nice split screen functionality and micr-screen functionality 3/4 and letter box at the corner.

Playing Socom and having your eye-toy set video conferencing with the rest of your team, or Madden just to see their reaction when you take 'em out or throw a touch down, will be priceless.

Speng.

Maybe i'm missing the point but why would you use split screen funcitonality on the TV when it will be much more effective in terms of screen realestate and probably processing to just have the PS3 overlay the video on the game screen?

 

[mckmas8808]

Maybe i'm missing the point but why would you use split screen funcitonality on the TV when it will be much more effective in terms of screen realestate and probably processing to just have the PS3 overlay the video on the game screen?

I want the screen that I'm playing on to be face-free. I love the idea of two different screens during gameplay.

 

[Thegameman]

I'm guessing that Sony didn't pay for JUST the design. The Nvidia engineers were part of the deal. My belief is that Sony approached Nvidia about a possible graphics processor while Nvidia was developing the G70. An agreement was made and the RSX was borne out of the G70 line of processors.

I mean, some people want it both ways. They want to believe that Sony and Nvidia were working together for three years AND they want to believe that somehow the RSX is a completely new design based on G80+ technology. That would make more sense if Sony and Nvidia just recently started their partnership and if the PS3 was going to ship in 2007, but alas that isn't the case. Sony never fabbed a complex GPU in its life and so it makes sense that they'll get their start with a mature design, not something new that even TSMC will have a hard time with.

True but is also a fact that the G70 was tapout long ago,hell the 7800 GT was release in summer if that would had realy been the case the PS3 would has to be more than ready by now,in fact by E3 the Xenos was not finish if it was the case that Nvidia has been working with Sony for some 3 years the RSX should had been more thna done by now...


I also read that Sony engineers were in with Nvidia ones working on the chip.

 

[expletive]

I want the screen that I'm playing on to be face-free. I love the idea of two different screens during gameplay.

BUt hes saying use the PIP functionality of the Sony TVs. By doing that, (inputting 2 video signals from the PS3 into 2 inputs and using PIP) each screen will shrink relative to the entire screen, theyll be side by side or on top of each other but in the end be smaller. I dont see the 'win' by doing this.