ATi is ch**t**g in Filtering

[radar1200gs]

If we add a checkbox for everything, you are looking at a total usability nightmare though. And big corporations take these things VERY seriously; we are a minority, and the millions of users do not want a control panel filled with lots of different (and most of the times confusing) options.

edit: That does not mean that we shouldn't have the option to do stuff btw. Just looking at it from a different angle.

The driver should default to doing everything 100% legally. If the user wishes to deviate from that, they can. Its their choice.

I'd suggest a user options tab for the checkboxes.

 

[Bjorn]

I have to agree with that but, from a marketing POV, if they went straight with this on launch, how many sites would have checked "disable trilinear optimisations" on NV40 drivers and which was fairer?

My answer would be "i don't know" on both questions. But then we would at least have known that none of the cards were doing "true" trilinear.

 

[mikechai]

I wonder if the ATI hardware is capable of doing 'true' trilinear in addition to the optimised filtering?

Yes, R420 will do true trilinear filtering when colored mipmap enabled.
________
Easy Vape Digital

 

[vb]

Yes, R420 will do true trilinear filtering when colored mipmap enabled.

And not only.

 

[bloodbob]

For both the filter test and the perspective correction test, a 15% error tolerance is allowed between each hardware-generated image and corresponding Reference rasterizer image—this error value is calculated as the cumulative pixel value differences between any two scenes.

15% THATS FRIGGING HEAPS ( with a 50/50 mixture of black and white texels you could have 15% of pixels inverted in colour and get away fine ).

Just something to remeber folks this is for trilinear and I believe the current Optimisations are only enabled during anistropic filtering which I believe these tests won't cover since I don't think its a required part of DX9.0 ( I could be wrong ).

 

[CarstenS]

Just something to remeber folks this is for trilinear and I believe the current Optimisations are only enabled during anistropic filtering which I believe these tests won't cover since I don't think its a required part of DX9.0 ( I could be wrong ).

No, it seems to be enabled with 'regular' trilinear filtering also.

 

[Dave Baumann]

Gah! F*cking mail viruses killing my server.

Anyway....

Just something to remeber folks this is for trilinear and I believe the current Optimisations are only enabled during anistropic filtering which I believe these tests won't cover since I don't think its a required part of DX9.0 ( I could be wrong ).

No, it seems to be enabled with 'regular' trilinear filtering also.

All the IQ shots / comparisons I've done in this thread are with straight filtering - no AF applied.

 

[bloodbob]

Gah! F*cking mail viruses killing my server.
Anyway....
All the IQ shots / comparisons I've done in this thread are with straight filtering - no AF applied.

First of all LOL people who run attachment from random emails.

2nd seeing all the benches/screens with AF on I had assumed it was AF related my bad.

 

[Evildeus]

Gah! F*cking mail viruses killing my server.

Ah that's the reason Hope it won't affect to much the server.

 

[jimmyjames123]

Here is a quote from DaveB in his 6800U review:

For the purposes of benchmarking we will enable full Trilinear filtering on the 6800 Ultra as this is a high end board and quality compromises shouldn't be forced at this price point

 

[digitalwanderer]

Gah! F*cking mail viruses killing my server.

It's ungodly how bad it is today, I'm getting more than 10 viri an hour at me EB account today!

This is the worst I've seen it.

So now that ATi has given their explanation I guess this is going to force me to actually think about it now, right?

<sigh>

 

[Stryyder]

JimmyJames

Who said that the ATI alogorithim causes a quality compromise.....

If you are please provide the proof of that assertion...If not then <insert advice here>/

 

[seahawk]

But that it was ATI does at the moment. they force image quality reductions.

The fact that it has not been noticed on the 9600´is imho to blame on not so deep reviews for the mainstream cards and the fact that enthusiast card owners rarely buy midrange cards.

 

[Stryyder]

But that it was ATI does at the moment. they force image quality reductions.

The fact that it has not been noticed on the 9600´is imho to blame on not so deep reviews for the mainstream cards and the fact that enthusiast card owners rarely buy midrange cards.

Link, proof etc... There have been differences noticed but who has specifically said that quality is lower????

 

[Jabbah]

Here is a quote from DaveB in his 6800U review:

For the purposes of benchmarking we will enable full Trilinear filtering on the 6800 Ultra as this is a high end board and quality compromises shouldn't be forced at this price point

I assume you are referring to the "quality compromises shouldn't be forced at this price point" bit. Which brings us to the question: Is this optimization detremental to image quality?

From the images I have seen the X800 looks better than the 9800. The textures look sharper for longer, and there is no obvious banding at the mipmap transitions. I still think it is something that should be able to be turned off.

So when it comes to benchmarking what should people do? If it really does mainly improve image quality and also increase fps, would it be fair to compare a worse quality and worse performing setting instead?

 

[pocketmoon_]

Here is a quote from DaveB in his 6800U review:

For the purposes of benchmarking we will enable full Trilinear filtering on the 6800 Ultra as this is a high end board and quality compromises shouldn't be forced at this price point

DB may argue that this isn't a "quality comprise", and it appears that there is no general demonstration that it is - YET.

 

[Dave Baumann]

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=286330#286330

 

[Stryyder]

Here is a quote from DaveB in his 6800U review:

For the purposes of benchmarking we will enable full Trilinear filtering on the 6800 Ultra as this is a high end board and quality compromises shouldn't be forced at this price point

DB may argue that this isn't a "quality comprise", and it appears that there is no general demonstration that it is - YET.

Well the technique has been used on the 9600 for over 12 months so .......

 

[jimmyjames123]

You can see some IQ comparisons here:

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/ati_radeon_x800/page9.asp

http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040414/geforce_6800-44.html

Obvious, in these two reviews, the 6800U has the leg up with respect to anisotropic filtering.

Now the real question is, why are we seeing these IQ differences?

 

[bloodbob]

From the images I have seen the X800 looks better than the 9800. The textures look sharper for longer, and there is no obvious banding at the mipmap transitions. I still think it is something that should be able to be turned off.

Oh great now it looks better!
There is a simple way to make stuff look sharper for longer alter the LOD.

If you stick your hand in 40 degree water it feels warm for a while but you get used to it. So you raise the temperature very very slowly and you don't notice the heat rise.

This will happen with IQ if we let it happen then the water burns our hand and the IQ will make us go blind ( well not really ).