ATI and App Specific Optimisations

[Dave Baumann]

Here you go, they will be using app soptimisations at some point in time:

http://techreport.com/etc/2004q3/ati-doom3/index.x?pg=8

We understand ATI will be using a "controlled" application detection method that should be a little more open than NVIDIA's, because users will have the option of disabling app-specific optimizations via the ATI control panel, should they wish to do so. App detection won't be a part of the upcoming Catalyst 4.9 drivers slated for release in September, but it will be included in the following version, Catalyst 4.10.

Ahhhh, benchmarking fun...

 

[Pottsey]

“, because users will have the option of disabling app-specific optimizations via the ATI control panel,â€￾

That sounds reasonable to me. I never had a problem with app-specific optimizations as long as I could turn it off if I thought the IQ was to low.

 

[dan2097]

Interesting, thats a bit shocking though that the af problems really was a driver issue considering the level of interaction ATI really should have with something as important as doom 3

It will be interesting to see what programs they target with app specific optimizations.

Targetting programs that control panel af texture stage optimizations causes problems on would be nice if they still aren't going to add an option to disable these "optimizations" i.e. halo, unreal tournament (d3d), undying, mafia

 

[euan]

well Ive always had the impression that NV's drivers are like swiss cheese, and run a separate distinct optimised path for every major game. It's impossible to compete with something like that. lol.


It would be great if they go into detail of what each and every app-specific optimisation is. NV probably wouldn't like that. what with that being their bread and butter... :troll:

I hope this improves compatibilty will older games.

 

[Ostsol]

Conspiracy theory: they'll have toggles for some trivial optimizations, but just not mention others!

 

[digitalwanderer]

Here we go....

 

[Scali]

the IQ was to low.

If the IQ is too low, you get flamewars.

 

[martrox]

So....in this case, chalk one up for nVidia......

Point being, ATI has no choice but to do this in order to compete. It sucks, and is the major reason that the BS that nVidia pulled the last 2 years will have an everlasting effect on the industry. And the real effects aren't even here...yet. As the manufactures start spending time, money and resources to optimise for the really big games, the smaller ones will lose out. There will be less innovation..... the money will be spent on optimisations.

Thank you, nVidia....we all lose!

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

The difference is that ATI is app-detecting to *improve* IQ for a few problematic games. Nvidia app-detects to lower IQ and get better benchmark scores.

 

[ninelven]

edited

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

What is there to improve if you're already doing it right?

When games like Doom 3 seem to be incapable of telling the card how to filter texture properly, as per this thread

 

[Pete]

The difference is that ATI is app-detecting to *improve* IQ for a few problematic games. Nvidia app-detects to lower IQ and get better benchmark scores.

Given enough time, there probably won't be a difference. </cynic>

So ATi's vaunted new GUI is a trojan horse. They give the user the ability to change settings per app, but that also gives them the ability to do the same (without the user's overt approval). If ATi bundles the CP separately to avoid confusing the user (and presumably doesn't allow you to disable trylinear for the same reason), just imagine how confusing toggles for every app-specific improvement will be....

Maybe I'm being too hard on ATi, but do we really think ATi will take the high road forever? They'll do so as long as they have the hardware advantage, but what happens when they fall behind nV again? I'll admit that this seems a bit strange coming as it does with the Xbox 2 in the bag, but it was probably (sadly?) inevitable.

 

[Smurfie]

This is a slippery slope that ATI could have avoided with just 1 simple feature.

• Disable trylinear optimizations.

 

[Brent]

There is nothing inherently wrong with application detection.

It can be used for useful things such as fixing bugs, and applying optimizations. All of which are good things.

 

[Bjorn]

What is there to improve if you're already doing it right?

When games like Doom 3 seem to be incapable of telling the card how to filter texture properly, as per this thread

Nothing wrong with Doom 3, just with Ati's driver. A problem that has been fixed without any performance loss also:

http://www.techreport.com/etc/2004q3/ati-doom3/index.x?pg=1

 

[digitalwanderer]

There is nothing inherently wrong with application detection.

It can be used for useful things such as fixing bugs, and applying optimizations. All of which are good things.

Regardless, it's still gonna bring out the fanboys from both sides in idiotic droves.

 

[Blastman]

This is a slippery slope that ATI could have avoided with just 1 simple feature.

• Disable trylinear optimizations.

That floor anomaly has nothing to do with the X800’s Trylinear.

 

[Smurfie]

This is a slippery slope that ATI could have avoided with just 1 simple feature.

• Disable trylinear optimizations.

That floor anomaly has nothing to do with the X800’s Trylinear.

I'm not referring to the floor anamoly. That's a bug.

I'm referring to the conclusion in that article.

ATI's decision to use app detection was also apparently influenced by its use of adaptive filtering algorithms. After the world learned of ATI's adaptive trilinear filtering algorithm used in the Radeon 9600 Pro and newer GPUs, the company challenged people to point out obvious image quality problems caused by this algorithm. Some folks apparently found some cases where ATI's filtering isn't as good as "full" trilinear filtering, so ATI will use application detection to address those problems on a case-by-case basis.

It's everything we flamed Nvidia for 2 years for. ATI's just doing it in its own red shade.

 

[PatrickL]

You should not always accept opinions as facts.

 

[jvd]

This is a slippery slope that ATI could have avoided with just 1 simple feature.


Disable trylinear optimizations.

It's everything we flamed Nvidia for 2 years for. ATI's just doing it in its own red shade.

We could have avoided all of this if nvidia just put in one option


* disable shader replacements .


That would have stoped all this crap