Are Sony devs aiming higher?

[NERO]

The bias implied is not just implied but explicit. Its not a bias toward Sony but rather a bias against some MS devs who are not really taking advantage of the next gen label t....Why are the 360 devs so mum?

Your post was well-written and diplomatic but IMO unfair to 360 devs. I'm sure dev teams are optimistic in whatever hadware they are handed due to the challenge of extracting power from the machines and honing their skills. I think PS3 devs tout their hardware a bit more - the vaunted cell and blu ray - because those are the talking points of Playstation brand. I might be misinterpreting what your saying about inspiration and optimisim but those are points philosophical that I don't want to touch. Are you just trying to lure 360 developers to your psychiatrists' couch?

 

[scooby_dooby]

BlakJedi, I am not entirely certain what you mean. Microsoft has games that are similar in terms of creativity, like Viva Pinata or Condemned. If you are talking about UE3, from what I understand RoboBlitz was really a unique idea (fully physics driven gameplay in a 50MB game) that showed how the 360 could be used to a small team.

Also, what is so creative about Afrika? As far as I can tell we know absolutely nothing about it, and while there has been a fair amount of buzz about it there hasn't been anything that has struck me as being incredibly special.

I think there's merit in lookin at LBP, and asking why MS has not done something similar, because that sort of online collaboration/sharing is exactly what they said they wanted to do. So, in that area specifically, and the online Home space, you could certainly say they are aiming higher.

But other than that, I don't see it. And I'll keep going back to Mass Effect, and ask who is aiming higher than Bioware?

 

[TheChefO]

And I'll keep going back to Mass Effect, and ask who is aiming higher than Bioware?

On a scope level, I'd agree. Great looking game as well (One of the best).

But, I have not yet heard of any xb devs making good use of it's more unique features. Some may be maxing everything out (xenos) in this regard, but I would assume we would be hearing about it if that were the case.

 

[Dr. Nick]

I have to agree with that statement as well.

Over the past 2 years you read dev interviews where the talk about how great the hardware is and the things they can do with it but when it comes to the 360 all they have to talk about is easy to use tools and Live...and these some of those comments come from some first and second party devs on the 360 as well.

You get the feeling that Sony devs want more and will do whatever it takes to get the best out of the hardware, on MS end when you hear them talk it doesn't seem like they want to.

 

[NERO]

I have to agree with that statement as well.
Over the past 2 years you read dev interviews where the talk about how great the hardware is and the things they can do with it but when it comes to the 360 all they have to talk about is easy to use tools and Live...and these some of those comments come from some first and second party devs on the 360 as well. You get the sense that Sony devs want more and will do whatever it takes to get the best out of the hardware on MS end it doesn't seem that way.

This goes back to talking points. MS devs talk about Live integration because that is what MS wants. Sony Devs talk about media and cell because that is what Sony wants.

 

[scooby_dooby]

but I would assume we would be hearing about it if that were the case.

Why would you assume we hear about it?

The proof is in the results imo, not what a developer says. There is little to no hype for Xenos, if a dev were to extoll the virtues of Xenos, most readers wouldn't know what he was taking about. CELL on the otherhand, well how can you talk about PS3 and not mention CELL? I think the reason you here so much about BR and CELL is because they aare tied to the marketing of the PS3, while 360's internal components are not.

 

[TheChefO]

There is little to no hype for Xenos, if a dev were to extoll the virtues of Xenos, most readers wouldn't know what he was taking about. CELL on the otherhand, well how can you talk about PS3 and not mention CELL? I think the reason you here so much about BR and CELL is because they aare tied to the marketing of the PS3, while 360's internal components are not.

Sad, but (probably) true.

 

[iceberg187]

I will have to agree that as far as marketing, Sony has done a great job as far as talking about Cell and Blu-Ray. They have positioned those in the public conscience very well.

 

[blakjedi]

bronx may have said it best when he said maybe they are playing it "safe." Maybe their goals are incremental increase and not a dramatic one. Whereas I feel that Sony devs want to startle you from the gate with their product. The want the leap from PS2 to Ps3 to be visually and experientially startling. I like that.

Let me add some more teams to the 360 list that may fall into the LP and Gears category - Bizarre creations, Bioware. I think PGR4 will, graphically at least, smoke FM2. It just an opinion. Those guys are completely stoked and basically said "f-ck whatever Turn 10 is producing! They are on their own timetable... wait until you see PGR4 now that we got some time with this hardware!"

Thats the kind of ambition and zeal I wanna hear from a 360 dev. Its almost as if when you read some interviews about games produced for 360, you can hear the surprise in their voices that they have gotten so much out of the system...

I think of Mass Appeal as appealing and maybe even beautiful but not quite stunning. There is nothing that I have seen where I'm, like "HOLY!!!! I have NEVER seen anything like that before anywhere else." I dont expect to be stunned by Halo 3 either. Wouldnt you expect that for a next gen system in its second year?

The other team that I think is totally ready to wow us is Silicon Knights ... I am actually looking forward to this title more than Mass Appeal... even with the broken E3 presentation... they seem like they went back to the drawing board and got the 360 to sing and can't wait to show the world what they did with this system.

Codemasters is pulling off some amazing work but they are MP. EA is doing some really nice things with their ambitious younger teams. Capcom the same. Bioshock looks cool, but nothing that would make people go pick up a 360... Shadowrun is honestly a disappointment... and yes I am a graphics whore!

I hope E3 turns this whole thing around because while I enjoy my 360 immensely and will continue to support it... if PS3 begins to deliver games that make me go "WOW!" I will pick it up post haste. Right now I'm pretty sure that game is LBP.. but we'll see how that title continues to progress. Now fun, and visually impressive, should work hand in hand. So dont think Im overlooking that aspect... but burgertime and dig dug are fun... geometry wars is fun - and doesnt really need a 360 or Ps3 to power it... give me the value of my purchase and i'll be happy. You said it can do amazing things so... amaze me!

 

[Todd33]

Why would you assume we hear about it?

The proof is in the results imo, not what a developer says. There is little to no hype for Xenos, if a dev were to extoll the virtues of Xenos, most readers wouldn't know what he was taking about. CELL on the otherhand, well how can you talk about PS3 and not mention CELL? I think the reason you here so much about BR and CELL is because they aare tied to the marketing of the PS3, while 360's internal components are not.

How would you hype a Xenos? There isn't much that is special about it. The Cell has hype outside of Sony and the PS3, hence it's relative name recognition.

 

[TheChefO]

How would you hype a Xenos?

Good point, but even in interviews I have yet to read up on xb360 devs poking around in some of the more unique and advanced features of the Xenos.

 

[Todd33]

Good point, but even in interviews I have yet to read up on xb360 devs poking around in some of the more unique and advanced features of the Xenos.

They stripped down a PPC core and shoved as many cores inside with 1MB cache at the highest clock rate they could get away with.

The 360 has a innovative GPU and boring CPU while the PS3 has a innovative CPU and boring GPU.

I was in a few conference calls with an IBM Ph.d that worked on both the Xenos and Cell, but I suspect she cannot talk about the Xenos since IBM does not own it.

 

[TurnDragoZeroV2G]

They stripped down a PPC core and shoved as many cores inside with 1MB cache at the highest clock rate they could get away with.

The 360 has a innovative GPU and boring CPU while the PS3 has a innovative CPU and boring GPU.

I was in a few conference calls with an IBM Ph.d that worked on both the Xenos and Cell, but I suspect she cannot talk about the Xenos since IBM does not own it.

Xenos is the GPU, not the CPU. Nobody cares about Xenon at all, and I think everybody agrees there.

Edit: By which I mean, nobody is excited about possibilities. They probably care, but it probably has a slightly more.... negative slant.

 

[dobwal]

The bias implied is not just implied but explicit. Its not a bias toward Sony but rather a bias against some MS devs who are not really taking advantage of the next gen label the 360 offers. The 360 will be 2 years old this year and launched with strong online capabilities but... LBP comes out of nowhere and shocks people with its graphical style (the lighting, textures, animations and physics are amazing frankly) designed for online.... Where is the creativity in the 360 dev pool that has prevented something like this from being produced in the last two years? Or Afrika?

The 360 being the cash cow that it is, and with UE3 being as rampant and accessible as it is... has that hampered the creative coding and design decisions of 360 devs? Lost Planet was a game that hinted that this is not necessarily the case... Gears also... but where are the teams that are looking at the 360 architecture and saying "theres this game I always wanted to make and have it look like THIS and the 360 is best way for me to actually get there..." Not because they got paid or were convinced by MS but because they were inspired by the hardware, middleware and other tools available for the platform.

This is no disrespect at all to the resident 360 devs here (Fran and cloudscapes and i think shootmymonkey come to mind). Its just that passion, zeal, optimism and ambition that i hear from folks like Marco and DeanoC for their hardware of choice seems to be something I read in most devs interviews who work on Sony's platform. Why are the 360 devs so mum?

Passion, zeal and ambition?

I think I going to have to report you to the jedi high council. Extrapolating such emotional tones and applying them to the PS3 hardware as inspiration reveals a vunerability to the dark side.

Be it that LBP is a product from a dev formed by former Lionhead employees, who games speak for themselves. I'll bet LBP creation is the function of the popularity of RagDoll KungFu and not a byproduct of wonderful feelings produced by the PS3 hardware. Sony was just smart enough to believe in the potential of such game.

The question is why isn't MS publishing more creative titles as independent devs are literally strapped by the risk that a really creative but non traditional title would present. That risk is heightened when the userbase is low which it is right now at the beginning of this generation. Its the first and second party devs that have the ability to lessen the risk as its the console manufacturers' money been used. Its also more practical as it helps create a more diverse library which is a primarily the responsibility of MS or Sony not third party devs and publishers.

However, if you look at the early months of both launches, its hard to make an argument of whether the 360 or the PS3 had a more diverse library. MS is already seeing a greater level of diversification in its library offering when looking at released games. But the PS3 will see greater diversification too, but its not a given that the library of the PS3 will offer greater diversity when its library matures unless MS doesn't buy into the advantage that a first and second party diverse lineup delivers by creating new creative ip unavailable to rivals.

 

[Todd33]

Xenos is the GPU, not the CPU. Nobody cares about Xenon at all, and I think everybody agrees there.

Edit: By which I mean, nobody is excited about possibilities. They probably care, but it probably has a slightly more.... negative slant.

Ya, those two names are too close and I was bound to screw it up, sorry

 

[mckmas8808]

2008? HS should be shipping this year (even if it is just before Christmas!)
Not to mention if Drake hits this year or KermZghrhrgm {shhh}

I think these titles will be struting their stuff quite well. The "aiming higher" sentiment seems to belong to third parties currently (vs last gen (BF:BC )).

What does BF:BC mean?

 

[pegisys]

I think of Mass Appeal as appealing and maybe even beautiful but not quite stunning. There is nothing that I have seen where I'm, like "HOLY!!!! I have NEVER seen anything like that before anywhere else." I dont expect to be stunned by Halo 3 either. Wouldnt you expect that for a next gen system in its second year?

I feel the same way about the PS3 really

nothing that has come out or that has been shown really says to me that it couldn't be done on the 360 or PC. To me the way that the developers hype the hardware and still produce games that are only comparative to the competition just screams marketing to me

I also think the PS3 developers have a lot more to prove then the MS developers. Sony has said numerous times that the PS3 hardware is supposed to be head and shoulders above the competition now they have to live up to that, and if they are aiming higher that is the case

 

[mckmas8808]

From my perspective I was just dissappointed to see many of the features of xb360 going unused compared to ps3 where they were not only using the featureset, they were going beyond what was thought possible... and at an early stage to boot.

Hmmm....good point. I didn't think of that Chef.

 

[TheChefO]

What does BF:BC mean?

Battlefield Bad Company

BFBC

 

[mckmas8808]

But other than that, I don't see it. And I'll keep going back to Mass Effect, and ask who is aiming higher than Bioware?

See that's why this question can't be answered. Mass Effect is huge and has 2 billion things going for it, for the type of people that like Western RPGs. This question is just to hard to answer.