Apple is an existential threat to the PC

[iMacmatician]

9to5mac reports on an Apple project codenamed "Star" (possibly a reference to the Xerox Star) which may be related to an ARM Mac transition.

There’s not much information on what the device could possibly be, but we do know that it has a touch screen, a sim card slot, GPS, compass, is water resistant and it also runs EFI. EFI (Extensible Firmware Interface) is the boot system used by Macs, which leads us to believe that the Star project could potentially be the first ARM-based Mac, with a ship date as soon as 2020.

The new device also is classified as a brand new device family and runs a derivative of iOS.

Many of those features are currently not associated with the Mac, for example, the water resistance isn't even on the iPad. I'm also curious as to what the "derivative of iOS" is going to be like.

Update: Most likely not true, see my post below.

 

[Entropy]

9to5mac reports on an Apple project codenamed "Star" (possibly a reference to the Xerox Star) which may be related to an ARM Mac transition.
Many of those features are currently not associated with the Mac, for example, the water resistance isn't even on the iPad. I'm also curious as to what the "derivative of iOS" is going to be like.

Sim-card slot suggests it is not a desktop project. ”Derivative of iOS” suggests touch interface is at least supported (if mandatory it would pretty much be an iPad) and it may or may not suggest something about file handling. The image in my head becomes something between an iPad with its keyboard attachment and a Surface.
It’s not a Mac if it doesn’t run MacOS apps though. And mouse/keyboard input would have to be fully supported.

 

[iMacmatician]

According to Mark Gurman,

I’m told this “N84” [“Star”] device is actually the low-cost LCD iPhone that looks like an iPhone X.

So false alarm folks, nothing to see here.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Apple is killing OpenCL and OpenGL in macOS:

https://developer.apple.com/macos/whats-new/


So how does this work? When macos takes OpenGL from the OS altogether, what will it happen to the games that require it to run?
Isn't this even going to bring them some legal trouble?

 

[pcchen]

Apple is killing OpenCL and OpenGL in macOS:

https://developer.apple.com/macos/whats-new/


So how does this work? When macos takes OpenGL from the OS altogether, what will it happen to the games that require it to run?
Isn't this even going to bring them some legal trouble?

It's deprecated, not removed (yet). Generally it takes about three or four major releases for a deprecated API to be removed completely, sometimes even longer.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

It's deprecated, not removed (yet). Generally it takes about three or four major releases for a deprecated API to be removed completely, sometimes even longer.

I know it's not removed yet. My question refers to when it is removed.

 

[Entropy]

I know it's not removed yet. My question refers to when it is removed.

Of course there is no legal problem with deprecating system software components. They never had a guaranteed lifetime to begin with, and nobody forces a user to upgrade the OS to a version that is incompatible with a particular app. Example: my elderly mother still uses my 17” lamp iMac from 15 years ago. Still chugs along happily and looks as good as it ever did. Runs an old version of OSX, which will allow her to run OpenGL apps for as long as she desires.

 

[willardjuice]

I bet it'll just be what they do on newer iOS devices already, emulate it with metal.

 

[Entropy]

Regarding the depecating of OpenGL and OpenCL, as far as gaming is concerned, this post by marksatt is informative.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

So now we have A10-class ARM chips in the iMac Pro and the 2018 touchbar MacBook Pros. I have the 2017 10.5" iPad Pro which has an A10X processor and it's insanely fast - way faster than you need what what Apple are using it for in the Macs.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

So now we have A10-class ARM chips in the iMac Pro and the 2018 touchbar MacBook Pros. I have the 2017 10.5" iPad Pro which has an A10X processor and it's insanely fast - way faster than you need what what Apple are using it for in the Macs.

Eh? All the reviews I've read of the 2018 devices have them still using Intel CPUs with a new T2 security module (which some are speculating are causing kernel panics on some devices).

https://9to5mac.com/2018/07/25/review-2018-macbook-pro-video/

Even Apple's site indicates they are still using Intel CPUs. The custom T2 chip doesn't sound like it is based off the A10 or have a similar performance envelope as the A10. That would seem to be overkill for what it is doing.

Regards,
SB

 

[iMacmatician]

Eh? All the reviews I've read of the 2018 devices have them still using Intel CPUs with a new T2 security module (which some are speculating are causing kernel panics on some devices).

https://9to5mac.com/2018/07/25/review-2018-macbook-pro-video/

Even Apple's site indicates they are still using Intel CPUs. The custom T2 chip doesn't sound like it is based off the A10 or have a similar performance envelope as the A10. That would seem to be overkill for what it is doing.

The T2 seems to be related to the A10.

• Jonathan Levin found a 64-bit kernel and references to "T8010" and "T8012." The T8010 is the A10 (the T8011 is the A10X).
  • Relevant summary from Steve Troughton-Smith here.
• Pepijn Bruienne from Duo Security claims that the T8012 uses the A10 CPU core, but just one of them:

Due to the increased reliance on a security coprocessor, Apple decided to give the T2 coprocessor a significant performance bump by basing it on the same AP core as the one found in the Apple A10 processor, a 64-bit ARMv8 processor also found in the iPhone 7 and 7 Plus. The T2 coprocessor is not exactly the same as the A10 processor since it incorporates only one of the T801x cores that make up the A10 package, but is a significant step up in capabilities from the earlier T1 AP. Apple gave the AP the model number T8012, references to which can be found throughout BridgeOS. A separate Secure Enclave Processor or SEP is also found in the T2, similar to that in the T1.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

The T2 seems to be related to the A10.

• Jonathan Levin found a 64-bit kernel and references to "T8010" and "T8012." The T8010 is the A10 (the T8011 is the A10X).
  • Relevant summary from Steve Troughton-Smith here.
• Pepijn Bruienne from Duo Security claims that the T8012 uses the A10 CPU core, but just one of them:

​

Thanks for the info and clarification on that.

Regards,
SB

 

[rcf]

Apple is an existential threat to its original core of professional Macintosh users.

LoL, what a clusterfuck. To summarize.

• They wanted to pay for repairs due to their own carelessness.
• The Apple store started the process.
• Apple headquarters won't approve sending the parts to the Apple store to repair the iMac Pro.
• They are told they need to go to an Apple Certified repair place.
• The Apple Certified repair place can fix it and Apple Headquarters will send them the parts, if the repair place has someone with Apple Pro certification.
• Apple Pro certification does not currently exist.

What. The. Fuck?

Regards,
SB

The final chapter of Linus' iMac "Pro" repair saga:

Some highlights:
500W PSU with exposed capacitors that could (and actually did) electrocute the technician and the computer.
Small heatsink and crappy fan design that is prone to dust problems.
It takes a lot of time to repair the machine since Apple authorized repair centers don't have spare parts.
The authorized repair center had to send almost the entire machine back to Apple before receiving replacement parts.
If you don't get "replacement pricing" then it can cost up to twice as much to fix the machine than to buy a new one.

That's what I call a "professional" service for a "professional" machine made for "professional" users.

 

[Pressure]

Could it also not be a bit, you know, sensationalistic "journalism" ? Shit-talking about that particular company generate views and money.

He started out by breaking any form for guarantee in the very first video in this travesty of a tale.

I would be concerned if other people were denied service.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

He started out by breaking any form for guarantee in the very first video in this travesty of a tale.

You mean he did what pretty much every serious hardware review site does when it reviews hardware? **GASP**

For example, most video card's warranties are broken as soon as you remove the heatsink/fan assembly. And yet it's common practice to do that.

I can't think of too many SSD products that won't void the warranty if the case is opened.

His guest owns a business (not Apple certified or authorized) that repairs and services some Apple devices. (https://www.rossmanngroup.com/ )

He consulted and has been working with authorized Apple repair centers as well as Apple stores. That's where he's getting the price quotes for the parts that had to be replaced.

He, get ready for this, LIKES Apple hardware even if he doesn't like some of their policies and practices.

Regards,
SB

 

[Pressure]

You mean he did what pretty much every serious hardware review site does when it reviews hardware? **GASP**

For example, most video card's warranties are broken as soon as you remove the heatsink/fan assembly. And yet it's common practice to do that.

I can't think of too many SSD products that won't void the warranty if the case is opened.

His guest owns a business (not Apple certified or authorized) that repairs and services some Apple devices. (https://www.rossmanngroup.com/ )

He consulted and has been working with authorized Apple repair centers as well as Apple stores. That's where he's getting the price quotes for the parts that had to be replaced.

He, get ready for this, LIKES Apple hardware even if he doesn't like some of their policies and practices.

Regards,
SB

In all fairness, I am not defending one or the other. Why does it matter if he likes the hardware or company? I don't need a recap of the story.

Normally the reviewer gets supplied the hardware to review from the manufacturer, so different rules obviously apply.

I'm all for the right to repair. I just think this particular story got blown out of proportion.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

You mean he did what pretty much every serious hardware review site does when it reviews hardware? **GASP**

Only the ones with money to burn ;-) I.e, if you break it you don't mind writing off several grand of product that the manufacture will only repair for full cost.

 

[rcf]

Could it also not be a bit, you know, sensationalistic "journalism" ? Shit-talking about that particular company generate views and money.
He started out by breaking any form for guarantee in the very first video in this travesty of a tale.
I would be concerned if other people were denied service.

Yes, Linus is overdramatic and sensationalistic, but he isn't wrong in this case.
AFAIK he paid for his iMac "Pro", broke it and wanted to pay for repairs, but was denied service after months of waiting.
So he's right in shit-talking a trillion dollar company that generates much more money by selling shitty $5000 "pro" computers that can't even be quickly repaired later on.

Here's another example of Apple's antics regarding its $5000 "pro" computer. The low quality in design, materials and customer service is appalling.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

AFAIK he paid for his iMac "Pro", broke it and wanted to pay for repairs, but was denied service after months of waiting.

I don't think you watched the same video I did. The VESA adapter and/or screws are clearly flawed but his mistake was drilling it (and not taking it straight back to Apple) then having swapped back to the stand and then back to the VESA mount, thinking four screws would cut it on a load-bearing adaptor. I can't see he was denied service or where he waited months - it was just over two weeks.

Here's another example of Apple's antics regarding its $5000 "pro" computer. The low quality in design, materials and customer service is appalling.

He had a poor experience here, unfortunately it happens. At the end of the video he always says "I've had Apple pro products for years and have always, aways, received top tier support" - then goes on to give examples of how Apple fixed a bunch of expensive stuff outside of warranty. This mirrors my support experience. My 2012 retina MacBook Pro took a bad turn out of warranty of Apple fixed it free of charge. When my 2013-era higher-spec 27" iMac bought in 2014 went wrong last year, also out of warranty, and Apple couldn't source replacement parts within two weeks, they swapped it for a higher-tier 2017 5K iMac - free. This meant replacing a 2013-design iMac with 2560x1440 LCD, 16Gb RAM and 4Gb Geforce 7800M with a month-old 2017 design iMac with 5K LCD, 32Gb RAM, and 8Gb Radeon Pro 580. Well beyond what most reasonable people would expect.

Do they get get it every time? No. Does anybody get it right every time? No.