anything new on the power vr front ?

Oh, that interview you mean.

I see that K said "intends to..." ..... isn't that every IHVs intention? What was the date of that interview again, and what have ATI and NVIDIA come up with since then?

:LOL: :LOL: :) :) ;) <dang... don't we have a "ribbing ya" emoticon?>
 
Well, the article was written at the 6th of December 2002, and since then we've had the NV30 and the 9800, neither of which overperformed relative to expectations.

Even the small fry players are bringing 300+MHz 8-pipe cores coupled with 300+MHz 128 bit DDR to the table, and while they may allocate the resources a bit differently, I'd imagine that IMGTech would design with roughly the same constraints as SIS and S3 as far as transistor budgets/board complexity/cost goes. And I'll credit them with sufficient competence to do a good TBR design within those constraints.

Should result in adequate performance to be worth considering if available, and at the right price. I've already expressed my doubts on availability though.

Entropy
 
I wish IMGtech and PVR were bought by Intel or Sony, IBM and Toshiba triumvirate...

At least they would have access to the state of the art manufacturing technology and teams very experienced in very high speed logic design... not that the PVR guys are not good at it... but guys like Intel and IBm just have a bit of an edge there...

PVR has great IP properties and great 3D chips designers ( the CLX PVR2 chip was a miracle for its time... ) that is not allowed to express their true potential...

If you guys had access to Intel-like manufacturign technologies and volume production you could take nVIDIA and ATI and run in circles around them...
 
Panajev2001a said:
I wish IMGtech and PVR were bought by Intel or Sony, IBM and Toshiba triumvirate...

At least they would have access to the state of the art manufacturing technology and teams very experienced in very high speed logic design... not that the PVR guys are not good at it... but guys like Intel and IBm just have a bit of an edge there...

PVR has great IP properties and great 3D chips designers ( the CLX PVR2 chip was a miracle for its time... ) that is not allowed to express their true potential...

If you guys had access to Intel-like manufacturign technologies and volume production you could take nVIDIA and ATI and run in circles around them...
Click to expand...


I don't know about PVR running circles around NV and ATI, but it would be intresting if they built something aggressive. Cetainly winning a home console contract like one from Microsoft for the X-Box 2 would be very spicy.
 
look if Intel owned IMGtech they would have the advantage of superior manufacturing process: Intel is at least 6+ months ahead what ATI and nVIDIA can get (UMC, TMSC)... basically Intel could start with a one generation process advantage every 2 product cycles or so...

While ATI and nVIDIA both have 130 nm for the highest end GPU, Intel already has a large scale CPU at 90 nm...

IMGtech never had the manufacturing process advantage over nVIDIA and ATI... that would give them an advantage in clock-rate and transistors count...

Intel COULD start a high-performance GPU business ( They stretch themselves already that is true, but "recently" they got the whole EV8 team from Compaq and TWO design teams from HP )... first two iterations might be so-so, especially the very first one... but the third product would probably end up to be a bombshell under ATI and nVIDIA's feet...

If they bought IMGtech they could declare game over with the second GPU produced IMHO...
 
Panajev2001a said:
look if Intel owned IMGtech they would have the advantage of superior manufacturing process: Intel is at least 6+ months ahead what ATI and nVIDIA can get (UMC, TMSC)... basically Intel could start with a one generation process advantage every 2 product cycles or so...

While ATI and nVIDIA both have 130 nm for the highest end CPU, Intel already has a large scale CPU at 90 nm...

IMGtech never had the manufacturing process advantage over nVIDIA and ATI... that would give them an advantage in clock-rate and transistors count...

Intel COULD start a high-performance GPU business ( They stretch themselves already that is true, but recently they got the whole EV8 team from Compaq and TWO design teams from HP )... first two iteration might be so-so, especially the very first one... but the third product would probably end up to be a bombshell under ATI and nVIDIA's feet...

If they bought IMGtech they could declare game over with the second GPU produced IMHO...
Click to expand...

No doubt about it, Intel has incredible fabrication prowess. Unfortunatley low end GPU's (integrated graphic cores in extreme volume) seems to be where the real profit is.

Just a side note here, I find it intresting that Power VR is still around and 3dfx is just a memory. The most ironic thing I could see happening is if Microsoft buys Sega and then goes with Power VR for an X-Box 2. It would sort of make a XB-2 more like a Dreamcast 2.
 
A PowerVR part has to show clear advantages in price/performance over ATI and nVidia offerings and generally seem preferable to SIS/S3/Whoever.
Click to expand...

I hate to say it but if they manage to compete with ATI/NVIDIA it's going to be enough anyway.

Even the small fry players are bringing 300+MHz 8-pipe cores coupled with 300+MHz 128 bit DDR to the table, and while they may allocate the resources a bit differently, I'd imagine that IMGTech would design with roughly the same constraints as SIS and S3 as far as transistor budgets/board complexity/cost goes. And I'll credit them with sufficient competence to do a good TBR design within those constraints.
Click to expand...

No.


deviant,

Unless I've missed any recent events, Sammy will be most likely not be opting for SEGA. I think I read at the Inquirer that Microsoft has shown interest in SEGA, but I pictured a huge saltmine in my mind while reading it :D
 
Panajev2001a said:
I wish IMGtech and PVR were bought by Intel or Sony, IBM and Toshiba triumvirate...
Click to expand...

Yes, we need more horizontal macro-monopolies... :rolleyes:

Panajev2001a said:
look if Intel owned IMGtech they would have the advantage of superior manufacturing process: Intel is at least 6+ months ahead what ATI and nVIDIA can get (UMC, TMSC)... basically Intel could start with a one generation process advantage every 2 product cycles or so...
Click to expand...

If Microsoft bundled their Office Suite with their OS they could make everything much more streamlined... :rolleyes:

Panajev2001a said:
If they bought IMGtech they could declare game over with the second GPU produced IMHO...
Click to expand...

So not only could Intel over charge for their processors, they could also overcharge due to having a monopoly on graphics chips? Do you just like getting bent over by these big companies, or what? :oops:

Brimstone said:
I don't know about PVR running circles around NV and ATI, but it would be intresting if they built something aggressive. Cetainly winning a home console contract like one from Microsoft for the X-Box 2 would be very spicy.
Click to expand...

Maybe if they designed their graphics chip to self destruct, taking the entire PoS console with it... Or charged so much that it made Microsoft's console business go bankrupt... :rolleyes:

Brimstone said:
Just a side note here, I find it intresting that Power VR is still around and 3dfx is just a memory. The most ironic thing I could see happening is if Microsoft buys Sega and then goes with Power VR for an X-Box 2. It would sort of make a XB-2 more like a Dreamcast 2.
Click to expand...

Actually, despite all that, the X-Box 2 would still be a PC... :rolleyes:
 
I don't see why SEGA's possible future would have anything to do, what Microsoft intends to do with it's next generation console.

If ImgTec has or will have an according IP design, Microsoft could approach them without the need for any intermediate third parties.

Has Microsoft yet reached a decision yet wether they'll produce a next generation console or not? I heard Huang raising some indirect doubts about the profitability of such a design, especially under the expected potentiality of PS3.....

:?: :?:

edit: typos
 
Ailuros said:
A PowerVR part has to show clear advantages in price/performance over ATI and nVidia offerings and generally seem preferable to SIS/S3/Whoever.
Click to expand...

I hate to say it but if they manage to compete with ATI/NVIDIA it's going to be enough anyway.
Click to expand...
Depends on how large a fraction of the market you are going after of course. I was assuming they would want to sell to more than just friends and neighbours. If you want to break people away from what they are used to and know works well, you have to offer them reasons. Fortunately(?), the PC market is focussed almost exclusively on the price/performance ratio, so if they get that right, they will sell.
Even the small fry players are bringing 300+MHz 8-pipe cores coupled with 300+MHz 128 bit DDR to the table, and while they may allocate the resources a bit differently, I'd imagine that IMGTech would design with roughly the same constraints as SIS and S3 as far as transistor budgets/board complexity/cost goes. And I'll credit them with sufficient competence to do a good TBR design within those constraints.
Click to expand...

No.
Click to expand...
Not quite sure what you are emphatically denying here.
My assumption was that they would have a design targeted at the same process tech and having largely the same overall complexity (giving similar expected yields and chip costs). Are you saying this is wrong?
Or are you saying that they aren't competent gfx-chip designers?
Wouldn't fit my prejudices about either you or them.

Could you please clarify?

Entropy
 
Kristof said:
Mulciber said:
Does anyone have a VideoLogic Neon 250 they'd like to sell to a collector? I've been on the lookout for one for a while, but can't seem to find any :(
Click to expand...

I think I have 3 from my good'old Graphics Card Reviewer days :eek:
Click to expand...
Gosh, I don't think I even have one for my little museum. Save one for me please!
 
Heres my hypothesis! Microsoft is working directly with PowerVR for the baseline DX10 standards and will use PowerVR DX10 based chip for the Xbox2. You heard it here first! :D
 
Mulciber said:
Does anyone have a VideoLogic Neon 250 they'd like to sell to a collector? I've been on the lookout for one for a while, but can't seem to find any :(
Click to expand...

I have 2. AND 1 of them is a PCI version :oops: Make me an offer ;)
 
I think I'm not the only one to wait for a king of the hill from PowerVR since the PCX2...

They have the skills, but they don't try, being the king = being well known = selling many cards (although not the high end ones).

ah well, I'll just wait a few more years...

Since I'm also waiting for Duke Nukem Forever, I'm very patient.
 
My assumption was that they would have a design targeted at the same process tech and having largely the same overall complexity (giving similar expected yields and chip costs). Are you saying this is wrong?
Click to expand...

My personal estimate is S5>XabreII/DeltaChrome.

Fortunately(?), the PC market is focussed almost exclusively on the price/performance ratio, so if they get that right, they will sell.
Click to expand...

A good price/performance ratio can be found in any market segment. If they wouldn't feel that they are capable of presenting such, they wouldn't waste manpower and resources on a design wouldn't they? (actually a no brainer).

As an IP selling company ImgTec has other conditionals to watch over, which eventually could be the milestones; in fact perfectly uncontrollable factors since they can't go into mass production and/or distribution. Until those conditionals are guaranteed that they don't exist, it's nothing more than hot air.

Heres my hypothesis! Microsoft is working directly with PowerVR for the baseline DX10 standards and will use PowerVR DX10 based chip for the Xbox2. You heard it here first!
Click to expand...

DX9.0 has still way too much headroom left.

***edit:

Well, the article was written at the 6th of December 2002
Click to expand...

It was published on 12/6/2002.

OT: it was my first ever interview as a layman; not to speak that english isn't my native language either. I at least managed to save myself from embarassment ;)
 
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