Anyone still think Wii U will "win" "next gen"?

[fearsomepirate]

That's what they get for designing a console based on Michael Pachter's recommendations from 2004.

The only way to save this thing is to basically re-launch it, except with a pair of remotes and nunchucks packed in, demote the uDraw tablet to add-on status, redesign the dash to make it less terrible, obnoxious, and slow. Also, pack it with an HD sequel to Wii Sports rather than Nintendo's Chibi Choo-Choo Train Theme Park.

They'd have a shot at turning the thing around.

 

[joesiv]

That's what they get for designing a console based on Michael Pachter's recommendations from 2004.

The only way to save this thing is to basically re-launch it, except with a pair of remotes and nunchucks packed in, demote the uDraw tablet to add-on status, redesign the dash to make it less terrible, obnoxious, and slow. Also, pack it with an HD sequel to Wii Sports rather than Nintendo's Chibi Choo-Choo Train Theme Park.

They'd have a shot at turning the thing around.

Naw, all they need to do is a price drop and release some games

 

[Ghostz]

Naw, all they need to do is a price drop and release some games

A price drop or games wouldn't do anything. You think Bayonattea 2 is going to sell people on WiiU or Pikman when you can get a 360 and like 10 games for 300 dollars? Like fearsomepirate said, they'll need to relaunch or they'll simply get drowned out by ps4 and 720 noise.

 

[Grall]

Pikmin will definitely sell systems, that type of game is aiming right at nintendo's core audience. Bayonetta...not so sure about that. I can imagine the bayonetta devs rather regret committing to wuu exclusivity by now. The way wuu sales are going, any hardcore gamer-centric game is probably going to work as well on wuu as viewtiful joe did on gamecube.

 

[babybumb]

The 3rd party support is and will be WORSE than Gamecube. I cant see Wii U doing much more than 5M a year even if they drop the price and release software. The droughts will eat it alive

There is a very real chance it will do worse than Gamecube before Nintendo pulls software plug likely in 2015 will be the last year for releases like Zelda. Gamecube was sub $149 for most of its life and maybe still making some money on hardware. Gamecube still sold tens of millions 3rd party software and Nintendo was making royalties in the hundreds of millions. Wii U will not get sub $200 maybe ever for profit and software royalties wont be even Gamecube level

Nintendo is shut out of the console market with the Wii U fail. They just cant launch a new console in 2015 because PS4/720 would be just way too strong ecosystems by then so there is no chance of 3rd party support to compete

 

[Ghostz]

Pikmin will definitely sell systems, that type of game is aiming right at nintendo's core audience. Bayonetta...not so sure about that. I can imagine the bayonetta devs rather regret committing to wuu exclusivity by now. The way wuu sales are going, any hardcore gamer-centric game is probably going to work as well on wuu as viewtiful joe did on gamecube.

When has Pikman ever sold systems? Halo 3 didn't even sell 360s what makes you think one of Nintendo's lower selling games are going to sell WiiU? Explain your mental gymnastics.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Naw, all they need to do is a price drop and release some games

Talk me through that. At what price and what sort of games is Wuu going to achieve what number of sales that's going to attract 3rd party support and resuscitate the platform? Next to the PS360 install base, I can't see the effort of Wuu ports being considered worth it unless there's a significant install base, like 20+ million eager software shoppers (so a million selling title on PS360 can get an extra 200k sales, which even then might not be considered worth it). And I can't see Wuu making those numbers on the strength of Zelda + Mario + Pokemon at $200. And even if it did, that'd be Nintendo gamers not likely buying 3rd party games.

Certainly regards the thread title, it's game over IMO. I even consider Wuu lasting 5 years with full software support from Nintendo unlikely at this point. Unlike the 3DS and other slow starters, Wuu is up against entrenched competition (150 million HD consoles) with all-round weaknesses (software library, word-of-mouth, unfinished software and services) and its key USP doesn't seem to resonate with the masses. I won't say it's impossible for a recovery - maybe the most amazing asymmetric coop experiences could turn the tide of public opinion - but the chances are vanishingly small.

 

[joesiv]

Talk me through that. At what price and what sort of games is Wuu going to achieve what number of sales that's going to attract 3rd party support and resuscitate the platform? Next to the PS360 install base, I can't see the effort of Wuu ports being considered worth it unless there's a significant install base, like 20+ million eager software shoppers (so a million selling title on PS360 can get an extra 200k sales, which even then might not be considered worth it). And I can't see Wuu making those numbers on the strength of Zelda + Mario + Pokemon at $200. And even if it did, that'd be Nintendo gamers not likely buying 3rd party games.

Certainly regards the thread title, it's game over IMO. I even consider Wuu lasting 5 years with full software support from Nintendo unlikely at this point. Unlike the 3DS and other slow starters, Wuu is up against entrenched competition (150 million HD consoles) with all-round weaknesses (software library, word-of-mouth, unfinished software and services) and its key USP doesn't seem to resonate with the masses. I won't say it's impossible for a recovery - maybe the most amazing asymmetric coop experiences could turn the tide of public opinion - but the chances are vanishingly small.

Well I don't mean it'll beat the PS4/Xbox720, but I was replying to a previous poster who was implying they need to completely change and relaunch the console to "save it". Nintendo won't get all the 3rd party support, I believe it'll be similar to the Wii situation, maybe a bit better as at least it's relatively capable this time around.

Talking through what I said, like the 3DS, which was struggling horribly at launch, dropping the price, and having solid game titles really is bringing it around. I don't see why the same can't be true of the WiiU. If you guage the general reaction to the WiiU currently, it's either that it's underpowered (compared to next gen) or that it has no games deserving of the console purchase. Once those games come out (mostly from Nintendo), the people who want a Nintendo playing machine will have no choice to purchase it. If a price drop happens, it'll make that choice even easier.

Also next to the PS4 and Xbox 720, if the Wii U were to drop it's lowest SKU to $199 or maybe $249, it will look like a bargain next to the competitors 399+ price. The next gen "buzz" might even bring more attention to the Wii U, as a cheaper, family friendly option.

I don't think it'll "win", so maybe I should have been more clear, but I think a lower price and solid games will definitely "save" the Wii U from dreamcast failure.

 

[Ghostz]

Nintendo will loose money doing it that way, what you're proposing doesn't even make sense. What makes you think Nintendo will drop prices by 150-200 dollars per unit (adjusted after the yen trends stronger) when they already aren't making that munch money on the hardware begin with and they will never get 3rd party support to make up the difference on royalties? Your comparison to the 3ds only makes your position weaker because at least the 3ds was making money even with a price cut, they'll make no money cutting the price of the WiiU. A price cut on the WiiU is realistically 1 year away. It's not even in the discussion unless Nintendo changes its policy to losing money on hardware and even if they did nobody is going to make games for it but Nintendo so they won't make it back on software.

 

[Grall]

When has Pikman ever sold systems? Halo 3 didn't even sell 360s what makes you think one of Nintendo's lower selling games are going to sell WiiU? Explain your mental gymnastics.

Your attitude is poor, bordering on hostile to say the least. You say "pikman" (wut?) hasn't ever sold any systems at all? Where's your evidence for that, or am I just to take your word for it? If that's not what you want to say then you need to express yourself in less absolute terms.

Wuu pikmin looks cute, it has very pretty and colorful graphics, I'm sure it plays very well by the time it is released. It's very difficult indeed to imagine it will NOT attract even a single new wuu customer. Halo series is a completely different genre of game, aiming at a very different type of gamer. Most people interested in the halo franchise probably already owned a 360 already. Pikmin releases at a different stage in the console's life, aiming at a different audience.

Seems you are the one who needs to explain your gymnastics here.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I think you're reading with a hostile voice. There's nothing actually hostile in Ghostz's words. With "not sold systems", that means "in significant numbers to catapult a platform's popularity". Pikmin sold 1.2 million copies over a prolonged period going by Wikipedia, and 500k owners of Pikmin on GC in Japan translated to 170k buyers on Wii, so it seems unlikely that millions of people will find Pikmin 2 reason enough to buy a whole new console.

 

[joesiv]

Nintendo will loose money doing it that way, what you're proposing doesn't even make sense. What makes you think Nintendo will drop prices by 150-200 dollars per unit (adjusted after the yen trends stronger) when they already aren't making that munch money on the hardware begin with and they will never get 3rd party support to make up the difference on royalties? Your comparison to the 3ds only makes your position weaker because at least the 3ds was making money even with a price cut, they'll make no money cutting the price of the WiiU. A price cut on the WiiU is realistically 1 year away. It's not even in the discussion unless Nintendo changes its policy to losing money on hardware and even if they did nobody is going to make games for it but Nintendo so they won't make it back on software.

I think you're wrong Ghostz.

• Dropping the base sku to 199 or 249, would only be a 50-100 price drop (it's currently at 300), some retailers are already selling at $249 if you take into account discount codes and such.
• The 3DS actually was sold at a loss after they did the drastic price drop, I could find sources if you like, it's widely known. However, currently they are making money on it, and believe it or not the XL was a move to increase profit (they must have reduced parts, and optimized the assembly somewhat)
• there is no reason to not to believe, that while Nintendo lost money on the WiiU at launch (nearly 5 months ago btw), that they might already be breaking even or making a profit at this point. It's not like they were loosing *that* much per console. When fall comes around with the launch of the Xbox 720 and PS4, it's possible that they could sell at $50 cheaper, and be breaking even, or even sell at $100 cheaper, and just be loosing a bit (like they did with the 3ds)

 

[Deleted member 13524]

I had Pikmin for the Gamecube and looking at today's games I can only compare it to a very good indie game. It's definitely not a system seller IMHO.
I never played Pikmin 2 but seeing how the title never reached the list of best-selling Wii/Gamecube titles (never reached 1 million sales), I don't think there's all that much anticipation for the game except for a handful of hundred thousand people.

Mario Galaxy, Mario Kart, Metroid, Monster Hunter, Smash Bros, Zelda and Animal Crossing are franchises that could make a significant change in the Wii U's marketshare. I don't think Pikmin is in that list.

 

[Ghostz]

I think you're wrong Ghostz.

• Dropping the base sku to 199 or 249, would only be a 50-100 price drop (it's currently at 300), some retailers are already selling at $249 if you take into account discount codes and such.
• The 3DS actually was sold at a loss after they did the drastic price drop, I could find sources if you like, it's widely known. However, currently they are making money on it, and believe it or not the XL was a move to increase profit (they must have reduced parts, and optimized the assembly somewhat)
• there is no reason to not to believe, that while Nintendo lost money on the WiiU at launch (nearly 5 months ago btw), that they might already be breaking even or making a profit at this point. It's not like they were loosing *that* much per console. When fall comes around with the launch of the Xbox 720 and PS4, it's possible that they could sell at $50 cheaper, and be breaking even, or even sell at $100 cheaper, and just be loosing a bit (like they did with the 3ds)

edited let me explain myself better.....

Nintendo is losing money. Which typically translates into not making as much or any money to add to their cash reserves. Now you are asking them to loose even more money as a company by dropping the price of their console. Do you not realize how....errr....not smart that is? So they should burn through cash for what purpose? You haven't explained what purpose would this serve that benefits Nintendo financially. See we get why Sony dropped the price on the ps3, they were at real risk of losing 3rd party support. I mean significant amount of support that would've killed the platform.

At no point in time did Nintendo ever sell the 3ds at a loss. If you remember correctly, the 3ds was over priced by 80 dollars. They sold like 5 million of those things at 250 dollars before they dropped the price on it. See they had enough cash to basically liquidate the sell of the 3ds before they dropped the price on it. They were making money on the 3ds, even with the little software they had, they were always making money on the 3ds. This, with no competition, it had a chance to mature all by itself and establish a marketplace. The WiiU is in completely different situation. They are competing now, with the ps3 and 360 and will be getting rear-ended by next gen. The WiiU isn't the 3ds, the comparison is dishonest, a red herring and simply wrong. They are going to get stomped on by the ps4 and 720. The ps4 was trending on social media well into 2 weeks the only kind of hardware that does that was the iphone, ipad, and the wii. There's so much want for next gen that the wiiu is going to get wrecked.

 

[Grall]

so it seems unlikely that millions of people will find Pikmin 2 reason enough to buy a whole new console.

I never said anything about "millions of people". Don't go be putting words into my mouth now...

 

[Ghostz]

I never said anything about "millions of people". Don't go be putting words into my mouth now...

As I expected, your comment was just a game of semantics. When people say that Pikman is going to be a system seller they are well...clueless.... It will only take some off mental gymnastics to form that conclusion. It must be nice to live in La-la land.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Hardly any single game is really going to move millions of systems, but single games add to the overall package. Halo 3 definitely was a system seller though. If there was no Halo games on 360, it would have sold less.

 

[Ghostz]

Halo 3 isn't even in the top 5 selling 360 games if I remember correctly? I remember having this debate before....CoD, gta those are system sellers. Well except for when you are Nintendo lol.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

It's an old game, the install base wasn't so big then. It was a huge deal in many ways back then. Many people bought the system, because they knew it was coming and it caught a lot of attention from media. Did GTA 4 even sell more on 360?

 

[AlphaWolf]

It's an old game, the install base wasn't so big then. It was a huge deal in many ways back then. Many people bought the system, because they knew it was coming and it caught a lot of attention from media. Did GTA 4 even sell more on 360?

In the US/UK gta4 was 2:1 for 360. Only other region with platform numbers was Japan where it was 4:1 for PS3 but moved very small amounts in Japan.

Halo 3 sold 8.1 million copies on 360. Only kinect adventures and black ops list as more on the 360. Modern Warfare 2 was right behind halo3.