AMD Vega 10, Vega 11, Vega 12 and Vega 20 Rumors and Discussion

[Grall]

No, it's not impossible. I work in product development for a living, and it's part of the production plan to have validation and qualification steps in place to detect catastrophes.

That's ridiculous, and easily provable to be incorrect. What x86 CPUs for example don't have any bugs/errata in them whatsoever? Several have shipped with serious bugs causing broken features and/or data corruption. Phenom had issues with its address translation tables or whatever, Haswell had borked transactional memory operations feature; there's many more examples like that.

You can verify until the cows come home and still not be able to catch everything that can go wrong in a design encompassing billions of trannies, especially under very specific, peculiar circumstances.

 

[C0der7]

That's ridiculous, and easily provable to be incorrect. What x86 CPUs for example don't have any bugs/errata in them whatsoever? Several have shipped with serious bugs causing broken features and/or data corruption. Phenom had issues with its address translation tables or whatever, Haswell had borked transactional memory operations feature; there's many more examples like that.

You can verify until the cows come home and still not be able to catch everything that can go wrong in a design encompassing billions of trannies, especially under very specific, peculiar circumstances.

You are correct. But when those mistakes knock your expected performance 20% or more, a promotion shouldn't be the outcome.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Okay, so Vega's "locked" features are probably broken in the hardware and will probably stay that way:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12147/amd-releases-radeon-software-adrenalin-edition

A good amount of readers, and not just ours, are strongly under the impression that Adrenalin is an RX Vega super driver. This is not the case. Adrenalin is explicitly focused on the broader Radeon user base; it does not bring any Vega-specific performance enhancements or documented changes to the behavior of Vega-specific hardware features. As for game-dependent enhancements to pre-existing games – features like Wolfenstein II’s Rapid Packed Math (RPM) support and to a lesser extent GPU Culling and Deferred Rendering – Adrenalin is not bringing any of those either. On that note, AMD commented that “any functionality or enhancements would have been made available with our day-0 game drivers and not held back for Adrenalin Edition.” This follows AMD's previous committment to immediate day-0 driver updates over larger update packages for performance.

Hey @Rys perhaps it wouldn't be such a bad idea to release a statement saying that all these features you guys promoted for Vega aren't coming.
And Wolfenstein II's RPM isn't even working, apparently. If so, this is beyond stupid.

 

[entity279]

What can possibly go wrong with an official statement? 970 GTX had 3.5 GB of RAM and everyone cheerfully accepted that.

(not that there's much connecting the two cards and their alleged issues, but declaring "this actually doesn't work" may be just as well a lawsuit invitation)

 

[Grall]

970 GTX had 3.5 GB of RAM and everyone cheerfully accepted that.

 

[Deleted member 2197]

(not that there's much connecting the two cards and their alleged issues, but declaring "this actually doesn't work" may be just as well a lawsuit invitation)

The threat of lawsuit will still be there if the features work on future Vega cards while doing nothing on the current batch.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

It wasn't cheerfully accepted but at least they addressed the issue and made clarifications.


As it is, AMD is simply trying to let the issue outside unattended while it rots.
And although it may actually rot to the point of being forgotten and turned into dust, the problem is it stinks a lot in the meanwhile.


AMD really needs a shake up in their PR department.
It's like they're actively trying to lose customers.

 

[entity279]

The threat of lawsuit will still be there if the features work on future Vega cards while doing nothing on the current batch.

Of course, but what lawyer knows what a primitive shader even is? They won't look for such omissions, unless they were spelled out for them.

Comparatively, the 970 GTX allegeded problems were a more tangible issue (and paradoxically, with much lesser, if any, performance implications )

 

[Grall]

Of course, but what lawyer knows what a primitive shader even is?

Don't knock lawyer know-how, dude... That would be a mistake I think. If you're a lawyer for a semiconductor tech company, especially if dealing with patent/IP law, you're going to be well versed in your own and your competitors' technologies, or else you won't be able to do your job.

...Or so I'd like to think anyway.

 

[Malo]

As it is, AMD is simply trying to let the issue outside unattended while it rots.

Honestly that's probably the best course of action they could take. Ignore it and move onto the next product. Anything else would be a PR and financial disaster.

 

[el etro]

So Vega was fabbed at the wrong fab and else lacks its most important features? Raja needed a leader to backup his work and to administrate RTG, both things at once was proven he can't do it. Lack of potential of him is highly doubtful otherwise Intel would not hire him as the Chief Engineer/SVP of graphics team.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Honestly that's probably the best course of action they could take. Ignore it and move onto the next product. Anything else would be a PR and financial disaster.

If they don't come clean with what's happening with Vega and let the issue to rot, I'm pretty sure I'm not purchasing another AMD card within the next >5 years. I won't financially support a company who leaves their customers to dry in such a way.

And I don't think I'm the only one, either. Vega is after all an enthusiast card and enthusiasts usually like to know what's going on with all the marketed features.

I would receive the "We fucked up and the hardware didn't come up as we hoped" memo graciously.
This "you're not even worthy of a statement" stance just shows sheer arrogance and is no way to treat the customers who paid >500€ for their products.

 

[Rootax]

The only reason I've a Vega, is that I had a good deal, and a Freesync monitor (and I needed more than my Fury X 4gb of vram). If AMD is still lagging behind in term of performances, AND Vega functions are not fully enabled one day, I will bite the coast and move to nVidia+Gsync in a few years...

I honestly think RTG is done, look at the money made by nVidia, it's absurd, RTG can't compete with that... I like the AdoredTV video about how the gpu war was over... I hope Navi will prove me wrong but...

 

[C0der7]

Don't knock lawyer know-how, dude... That would be a mistake I think. If you're a lawyer for a semiconductor tech company, especially if dealing with patent/IP law, you're going to be well versed in your own and your competitors' technologies, or else you won't be able to do your job.

...Or so I'd like to think anyway.

I work with patent attorneys from time to time. Brilliant people in every facet! Most have an MS in either computer engineering or electrical engineering, went the distance and got a jurors doctorate and has the personality to deal with people on a daily basis that aren't nearly as smart as they are. The ones at my company are straight or rock stars if you ask me!

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[Malo]

If they don't come clean with what's happening with Vega and let the issue to rot, I'm pretty sure I'm not purchasing another AMD card within the next >5 years. I won't financially support a company who leaves their customers to dry in such a way.

And what would be worse for them financially? Some forum warriors up in arms or a PR statement and the resulting mass journalism? This whole year has been a clusterfuck for RTG and I personally agree with your viewpoint and am now waiting to see what gaming Volta(Ampere?) is like. But we should be realistic about expectations of "honesty" from a large corporation with shareholders.

 

[Bondrewd]

Ah yes, smells like lawsuit material.
I though AMD learned that well enough with Llano?

 

[Deleted member 13524]

The only reason I've a Vega, is that I had a good deal, and a Freesync monitor (and I needed more than my Fury X 4gb of vram).

Same here.
My Vega 64 at launch MSRP was a nice deal for someone with a FreeSync monitor like me, there's no doubt about that.

Though this has nothing to do with AMD marketing a bunch of features half a year before release, and another half a year after release they're disabled and there's zero communication about what the fuck is happening, other than some completely disconnected posts/tweets from @Rys , forum posts from journalists like @Ryan Smith and.. I think that was it?

And what would be worse for them financially? Some forum warriors up in arms or a PR statement and the resulting mass journalism?

The worse part should be the massive loss of consumer trust, regardless of how pretty they want to keep some reality distortion field that they can't actually maintain.

As for the forum warriors sarcasm, 2017 should have taught corporations and people alike that communities nowadays have immense power over brands and product success.
I thought we would be over this general "I'm too little to accomplish anything" sentiment. I'll express my insatisfaction and so will many others.
If this keeps on, my word of mouth from now on will be "don't buy AMD graphics", and my opinion has value.

But we should be realistic about expectations of "honesty" from a large corporation with shareholders.

What's at stake isn't even honesty. It's community feedback and communication, and the arrogance of choosing not to communicate.

 

[Geeforcer]

I would receive the "We fucked up and the hardware didn't come up as we hoped" memo graciously.
This "you're not even worthy of a statement" stance just shows sheer arrogance and is no way to treat the customers who paid >500€ for their products.

The first is a wide-open invitation to a class action lawsuit. The second one is... nothing to them, really. Everyone bought the card as is; not to sound flippant (and I really do understand the feeling of broken trust) but from the legal perspective, if you bought the card as sold with the expectation that in some indeterminate time it's state would be something OTHER than it was at the time of sale.. well, that the risk you as a consumer assumed. AMD never made any concrete performance grantees you can prove have been breached and never put a time frame on any development milestones. To buy the card in this state for anything other than what was being shown at the time was to buy into the "magic driver" fable.

 

[Malo]

As for the forum warriors sarcasm, 2017 should have taught corporations and people alike that communities nowadays have immense power over brands and product success.

Yes you are right, this year has definitely proven that. It's a term I probably shouldn't use anymore.

It's community feedback and communication, and the arrogance of choosing not to communicate.

Probably more fear than arrogance?

The Rapid Packed Math for Wolfenstein 2 is pretty much indicative of their whole year and everything related to Vega. Touted by marketing to highlight hardware features in Vega that once released are broken and still not fixed.

I do like some new features in Adrenalin. Unfortunately the Vega fiasco will overshadow that. A generic Chill profile is great. Multi-GPU borderless windowed gaming is a significant feat been requested for a long time and important for MS gaming mode. Improved Wattman functionality and stability is great for overlockers and FRTC enhancements are nice as well.

 

[Grall]

I would receive the "We fucked up and the hardware didn't come up as we hoped" memo graciously.

My take is, it's always better for a big corp to simply acknowledge, "hey, we screwed up." Pretending like they didn't doesn't fool anyone; it just makes them look deluded and deceitful. By them admitting they did wrong, I as a customer can have some hope that they will now go about fixing what went wrong. If they refuse, I might as well assume that they've not learned a thing and will screw up once more and then try to trick me again. That's actually one common way companies go under.

if you bought the card as sold with the expectation that in some indeterminate time it's state would be something OTHER than it was at the time of sale.. well, that the risk you as a consumer assumed.

If marketing bangs big drums for the features with all kinds of slides, and has one of their senior engineers do a video interview explaining one of those high-profile features with one of the bigger hardware websites/youtube channels out there, it's absolutely implied that the hardware is going to benefit from those features and you as a customer benefiting as well if you buy this piece of hardware.

Leaving customers high and dry with nary a word afterwards is, well IANAL, but it does indeed sound fraudulent to my ears at least.