AMD Vega 10, Vega 11, Vega 12 and Vega 20 Rumors and Discussion

Discussion in 'Architecture and Products' started by ToTTenTranz, Sep 20, 2016.

  1. Malo

    Malo Yak Mechanicum
    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2002
    Messages:
    6,975
    Likes Received:
    3,051
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    On Newegg in US at the moment you can't buy a Vega unless it's in a bundle with other hardware like, motherboard, Ryzen CPU, monitor etc.
     
  2. 3dilettante

    Legend Alpha

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2003
    Messages:
    8,122
    Likes Received:
    2,873
    Location:
    Well within 3d
    There is usually a difference between the usage of the word "made" versus "diffused".
    The silicon can be fabbed in one place, but would be assembled in another.

    The differences in packaging may be related to when in the sequence of packaging and testing the chips were discarded, if there aren't engineering samples in the mix.
    It's possible the stage for applying the filler wouldn't be reached if early testing of the MCM and DRAM indicates an irrecoverable fault.
     
    pharma, Malo and AlBran like this.
  3. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Messages:
    8,166
    Likes Received:
    1,836
    Location:
    Finland
    Indeed, there's no indication of Vega 10's being diffused at anywhere but GloFo, but we've been able to confirm that they are packaged ("made") by two different parties and filler or lack of filler is related to who's packing the thing

    AMD will supposedly release a statement regarding it soon(ish)
     
    pharma and CarstenS like this.
  4. 3dilettante

    Legend Alpha

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2003
    Messages:
    8,122
    Likes Received:
    2,873
    Location:
    Well within 3d
    If it comes down to a which contractor is finalizing assembly, it would seem like this would be a significant variance mechanically. It's potentially different thermally if the noted difference in chip and stack height exists in devices sold.
     
  5. Alexko

    Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    4,491
    Likes Received:
    909
    Has anyone come up with a concrete hardware reason why Vega should perform so poorly? I mean, given its raw specifications, it ought to be much faster than the GTX 1080. Apart from immature drivers, is there anything noticeably wrong with the architecture?

    It seems to me that "magic" drivers are a pipe dream but that we can expect very significant performance improvements over the coming months, unless there's a big issue I'm missing.
     
  6. roybotnik

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2017
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    14
    All I can say is the driver situation is really mess. RX Vega has it's own driver package, Vega FE has it's own driver package, both separate from the mainstream crimson/pro all-in-one packages... And now FE has a beta driver which is missing the pro/gaming mode switch. Hope they can get this all reorganized sometime yesterday.

    Meant to say "from a consumer's point of view" at least ^ (I guess I can't edit my posts yet, sorry)
     
    #3626 roybotnik, Aug 16, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2017
  7. silent_guy

    Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,754
    Likes Received:
    1,379
  8. gamervivek

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Messages:
    715
    Likes Received:
    220
    Location:
    india
    From the whitepaper, the geometry numbers keep going up, I thought this was 11 before,

    Also L2 is 4MB now and,

     
  9. Clukos

    Clukos Bloodborne 2 when?
    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2014
    Messages:
    4,453
    Likes Received:
    3,784
    #3629 Clukos, Aug 17, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017
    pharma likes this.
  10. no-X

    Veteran

    Joined:
    May 28, 2005
    Messages:
    2,297
    Likes Received:
    247
    I don't think so. Vega 56 has 20 % lower bandwidth than Vega 64, but average gaming performance is only 10 % lower. I think pixel fillrate might be quite significant limiting factor (64 ROPs at ~1500 MHz). Even GTX 1070 has ~13 % higher pixel fillrate than Vega 64 (GTX 1080 even ~20 % higher).
     
    Cat Merc likes this.
  11. Cat Merc

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    May 14, 2017
    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    108
    Pascal gains from memory OC too. There are different amounts of bandwidth "bound", and usually 100% unbound by bandwidth is a highly inefficient waste of resources.

    Pixel fillrate being the limiter would have Vega lose ground at higher resolutions. The opposite happens.
     
  12. no-X

    Veteran

    Joined:
    May 28, 2005
    Messages:
    2,297
    Likes Received:
    247
    I don't think it can be that simple. With increasing resolution, ALU:TEX ratio gets slightly higher and with the huge arithmetic performace of Vega, overall utilisation gets better. It probably (more than) compensates the low pixel fillrate. Anyway, real-world performance difference between Vega 56 and Vega 64 are in line with the fillrate difference (and not in line with bandwidth, ALU and texturing performance).
     
  13. Anarchist4000

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    1,439
    Likes Received:
    359
    More likely culling than memory compression. The color compression advantages were rather minimal as they fall to extreme cases. Lots of identically colored pixels over an area. Maybe 1% of the workload unless the game is cell shaded. The culling would be that many shader invocations that ultimately get discarded. That's less ALU, cache thrashing, fill rate, etc. Gets worse as resolution increases as pixel density goes up. It's more or less a driver issue dependent on the binning and tiled rasterization. Nvidia may currently have the bins ordered better. Binning helps with texture caching, but they need ordered front to back for occlusion culling along the lines of TBDR.
     
  14. seahawk

    Regular

    Joined:
    May 18, 2004
    Messages:
    511
    Likes Received:
    141
    I personally think that it depends on how well the driver can replace Vertex Shaders with primitve Shaders, which then seem to improve binning and with that effective bandwith. There is a lot of potential hidden in VEGA, but I fear the driver team will have to work hard to unlock it and looking at the current driver state, I fear it will always be a bit hit and miss performance wise.
     
  15. Scott_Arm

    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,223
    Likes Received:
    3,655
    So why does msaa tank vega performance so much?
     
  16. Cat Merc

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    May 14, 2017
    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    108
    Don't the ROPs handle MSAA?
     
  17. 3dcgi

    Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    2,435
    Likes Received:
    263
    Binning could hurt texture caching too, so it's workload dependent. Think of a big triangle mixed with a bunch of small triangles. Normally the big triangle renders all together and cache hits are maximized at all levels of the cache hierarchy.

    Now think of the big triangle being rendered in a bin with a bunch of small triangles. By the time the big triangle gets PS threads back on the same CU/SM with another bin the texture data in the L1 has likely been flushed. A big L2 cache means you'll probably keep hitting there, but you might incur more L2->L1 bandwidth. We've seen Nvidia has a large bin size and this is likely to ensure they don't miss in the L2 cache for textures and ROP data.
     
    DavidGraham likes this.
  18. AlBran

    AlBran Ferro-Fibrous
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2004
    Messages:
    20,653
    Likes Received:
    5,757
    Location:
    ಠ_ಠ
    Ghosts of R600. :shocked:

    Since they go through the L2 now, maybe they're just thrashing it with the amount of sample data? :???:
     
    #3638 AlBran, Aug 17, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017
  19. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Messages:
    8,166
    Likes Received:
    1,836
    Location:
    Finland
    Perhaps some quirks with ROPs being now attached to L2 instead of memory controller, hopefully it's just a driver issue
     
  20. Scott_Arm

    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,223
    Likes Received:
    3,655
    I'd actually like to see some extensive benchmarks done with no AA and with FXAA, SMAA etc only. It's an unexpected performance issue.
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...