AMD: R9xx Speculation

http://www.nvidia.com/docs/IO/43395/BD-05238-001_v02_M2050_boardspec.pdf

225W isn't the board power in that case, it's the "Board Power Dissipation" according to that document.

I was confused since people first place a GPU in that chart and later on start to specify which model of card they want in there to have to most desirable specifications. Like Cypress is now split in Radeon and Firestream, but GF100 only as a specific Tesla part.

Maybe I can help you out on both accounts:
Board Power Dissipation it is now, because the amount of energy to get the fan spinning [around 10 percent of total in this case] is removed from the equation for a passively cooled solution. So it's all dissipation now.

Second: In case you're referring to my post, which I assume you do even without you saying so, just read more carefully: The topic was of computing solutions over at RWT, I explicitly referred to supercomputing solutions in my post and the thermals given & linked could only mean one single piece of hardware. I'll remember to spell it out for you next time.
 
I'll remember to spell it out for you next time.

Yes thanks because the name of a single chip is something different than a variety of Compute products on which they are based.

I still think the 225W "indication" can be "broken"
 
I'd say Tesla and Quadro have a fair bit to do that with. They command much higher price premiums than ATI's FireGL line. Likewise AMD's margins are hampered by their CPU line where competition with superior (generally) products from Intel severly limit possible margins.

Regards,
SB

According to their latest financials, NV professional cards bring in c. 3/4 of their total revenue.

Given that those are probably way fever in number, they could conceivably make a sizable loss on every consumer card and still make the kind of profit they do.
 
According to their latest financials, NV professional cards bring in c. 3/4 of their total revenue.

Given that those are probably way fever in number, they could conceivably make a sizable loss on every consumer card and still make the kind of profit they do.

It would be interesting to see what is the profit share of professional cards. Does any one have a number for the latest quarter?
 
Three Months Ended May 2, 2010:
................................................ GPU ..............PSB..............CPB................All Other..........Consolidated
Revenue ..........................$ 780,853......$ 189,730.......$ 31,230 ..........$.−.................. $ 1,001,813
Deprec and amort exps.... $ 34,506........$ 5,395......$ 6,893..........$ − ....................$ 46,794
Operating income (loss) ..$ 115,344 ....$ 73,865 ...$ (41,816) .......$ − .................$ 147,393

This is from the NV financial statement. GPU - GeForce, ION; PSB - Tesla, Quadro; CPB - Tegra

PSB is 1/5 in revenue and a little bit more than 1/3 in income.

It's far from 3/4.

From here (page 24).
 
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PSB is 1/5 in revenue and a little bit more than 1/3 in income.

It's far from 3/4.

Hmm... My 3/4 was based on this: "NVIDIA’s GPU revenue was flat from the typically strong fourth quarter. Its professional graphics revenue grew 20% sequentially but its consumer revenue declined 31%." [Here]

I guess they messed up those numbers if yours are from the financial statement. Do you have a link for it?

Edit: Oh, thanks.
 
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Hecatoncheires might be even further out. I think I already said after Computex that S.I. comes after N.I.

One is a shrink
One is a hybrid
One is a new architecture
 
Likewise AMD's margins are hampered by their CPU line where competition with superior (generally) products from Intel severly limit possible margins.

They own the vast majority of the WS market and AMD is fire selling 6K series cpus to stay competitive (6100 is 2x the silicon have < 1/2 the price as what it replaced).

So you guys are suggesting that AMD's margin on CPUs is actually currently lower than their GPUs? That's a first. What does a Cypress chip go for?

So if they've sold very few GF100s, their margins depend mostly on the rest, and the rest is mostly DX10.1 parts these days.

So what's driving the projected margin growth in the third quarter? According to you guys it's certainly not GF104 (which should be destroying margins according to Charlie).

Maybe you want to talk "we havent seen their exact contracts", but common sense should remain, and if you argue against common sense, you better come up with something more than... your opinion.

Focus more on numbers and less on the capslock button and you might get a clue. Or cuddle those common sense opinions of yours...your choice.
 
I thought, that initial plan was to shrink current architecture to 32nm (~April/May 2010) and replace it by new architecture (28nm) around Q4/2010. After 32nm node was cancelled, they decided to cancel the shrink part and replace it by hybrid of current and future architecture (40nm) around Q4/2010. But it seems to be even little more complicated...
 
So what's driving the projected margin growth in the third quarter? According to you guys it's certainly not GF104 (which should be destroying margins according to Charlie).

As you said, the margin growth is merely a projection at this point, but let's say it's a correct one.

I don't know about GF104 "destroying margins" but there are a few simple facts that are hard to dispute:

  • GF104 is bigger than Cypress, therefore costlier to make (and Charlie isn't the only one saying so);
  • GF104 is slower than Cypress, therefore sells as $199 and $229 cards;
  • Cypress sells as $199 to about $399 cards.

Those are facts. And I would add that GF104 is only available in a crippled version, and even the 256-bit version (still crippled) is apparently a bit harder to get than the 192-bit one. Plus, it is a derivative of GF100, whose yields were rather poor at best. So I'm going to add that due to this plus the size factor, GF104's yields are significantly lower than Cypress's. That's not a hard fact, but I think we can put it down as "very likely".

From there, the conclusion is simple: either AMD enjoys really stellar margins on Cypress and NVIDIA makes decent money on GF104, or AMD enjoys good margins on GF104 and NVIDIA doesn't make much on GF104.

As to the source of improving margins, it could be a more favorable product mix, a result of lower 40nm wafer prices, a by-product of the chipset market dwindling (it's a low-margin market, so if it became less significant, average margins could go up), Quadro and Tesla picking up… or all of the above.

By the way, I couldn't find any Fermi-based Quadro, has NVIDIA released them yet? Do they plan to do it soon?
 
NVidia will have improved margins simply due to having ~$200 cards on the market that people want to buy.

Professional versions of GF104 will come later, providing a healthy bump in average margin for GF104.
 
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