AMD Mantle API [updating]

Discussion in 'Rendering Technology and APIs' started by MarkoIt, Sep 26, 2013.

  1. lanek

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    GTa5 still there ? Definitively im really not sure of this one, i know Rockstar have sign in on Mantle and they are allready work on it ( mean developpers are explore it ), but i really dont think it will be used on GTA5 ( for the different reasons i have expose allready, and the best reason is maybe the fact is this game is allready released on console since a long time, and they got allready enough work for port it to pc without add Mantle to it... ( Seriously, they are allways no in trouble for port their games to pc, why it take so much times. Every studio here are nearly able to release port on PC and console simultaneously, but not Rockstar, and in general GTA is not really good vs the consoles release ( not flawless anyway)...
     
    #1801 lanek, Jul 10, 2014
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  2. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
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  3. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
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    Then again, they're porting it to new consoles too, and while not the same, Mantle is supposedly compatible with a lot of their code, so the added effort might not be that big?
     
  4. lanek

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    You are right on this, but i dont know, they have allready a lot of work / trouble for release their games.. ( how many time since the release of GTA5 on console ? nearly one year maybe, and it was the same for previous version ) ..

    I dont see them do more work for release it with Mantle support.. But who know ? Personnally i will be glad if they do it. Rockstar are slow as hell when it come for release the game, i dont know why.... ( If it was for really polish the game, but we have all see the result, it was not really the case )
    I ask me if they just dont pass their time to play at the console version .. ( i joke )
     
  5. DavidGraham

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    Dying Light, GTA 5, COD AW are GameWorks titles, NVIDIA is posting materials about them on their Geforce site and social media pages, a behavior they do to the titles enlisted in their program, the source of the news might have confused the the respective studios enrollment in the Mantle beta program, and thought their upcoming games will support Mantle automatically, which may not necessarily be the case at all.
     
  6. lanek

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    Not Gameworks... TWIMTP ( im not sure for GTA5, because it was seems the case, the game is definitively not anymore listed as a TWIMTP game now, but this dont mean it is not part of the program anymore) ..

    TWIMTP games and Gameworks ( games that are using the gamework library ( offtly outside Ubi soft right now, this mean just TXAA ) are 2 different things... Watchdogs is the worst example could have take AMD, as the game dont really use much gamewok library. ( TXAA, HBAO+, and maybe ( i dont think personally ) the fire one.

    As i said, outside the titles of Ubisoft, most only use TXAA, who is a standalone method for replace standard MSAA.. using TXAA in a game, even if TXAA is now part of Gamework library, dont do of this title a "gamework" game. TXAA was allready provided, well before Nvidia have start the gamework library regroupement ( Basically you can have a game who is a gaming evolved AMD title and in addtion developper want to provide for Nvidia user TXAA, it is totally possible this will happend.. TXAA work like an additional setting who only work with Nvidia cards anyway ).. This will just mean they have to collaborate with Nvidia for include it.

    But im completely right with you, i think the list is basically made with studio who explore Mantle today ( like Activision, Rockstar etc ), this dont mean their actual titles in developpement will add the possibility to use Mantle when released.. basically every Big studio have sign in.. Im a developper, im curious, i sign in... Im a chief enterprise on gaming developpement, i lead a studio, i see Mantle, i sign it, and charge my developpers to evaluate it, and report if we can do something with it... because i dont want to be behind the wheeel... Note that there's a curious phenomen who appear right now, i know some studio who have traditionnally work closely with Nvidia who have sign in, and are working on Mantle right now, but they just hide it to Nvidia for the purpose you can imagine.. ( This dont mean they will include it then in their titles, but they want to be ready, in the case one day they implement it ( and dont need to start from scratch ) .
     
    #1806 lanek, Jul 11, 2014
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  7. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
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    While it is on their "game site", Dying Light mentions zero "NVIDIA features" (http://www.geforce.com/games-applications/pc-games/dying-light), GTA 5 and COD AW aren't even in their "game site" http://www.geforce.com/games-applications

    GTA 5 is only mentioned as in "it's coming to PC" with no mentions of any "NV features" or such here: http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/articles/visually-enhanced-grand-auto-v-launching-on-pc-this-fall

    COD: AW isn't mentioned at all, anywhere.

    Also, there's a difference between GameWorks and TWIMTBP

    People read far too much into "but the last part of the series was 'company x heavy' too!11"
     
  8. lanek

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    I have try to confirm if GTA5 was a TWITMP games and again, i have no response,.... maybe it was, maybe it is again, i couldnt find any confirmation for it.. So i dont know ..

    The only material who was posted by Nvidia was finally the upcomming release date of it in their stocks owner presentation, and the date was completely false ( last winter for the pc version ) ( in the part: PC games have never been so much alive )... outside this i dont remember anything related between Nvidia and Rockstar about GTA5.

    So maybe it is a TWIT.... ( im really tired to write this abrevation, can we find something shorter ? ) , maybe not ... we have nobody from Rockstar on this forum ?
     
    #1808 lanek, Jul 11, 2014
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  9. DavidGraham

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    Not necessarily, a lot of non-ubi titles have expanded NVIDIA features, COD, batman, Borderlands, Titanfall .. etc

    NVIDIA aggressively expanded the concept recently, TWIMTP games are usually fitted with GameWorks tech currently, the opposite is the exception now, you can see that in all of the other titles fitted with PhysX, TXAA or HBAO.

    It did happen in Crysis 3, (clearly Crytek didn't want to let go of NVIDIA, as evident by their deal to implement PhysX in the engine to integrate it into Warface).

    However I Actually think when a studio is signing a deal with NVIDIA, it still doesn't mean AMD is out, a studio could very well load a game with techs from both companies. it's just that this is less likely to happen mere months from release. they will take time before their recent involvement with a particular becomes fruitful.
    NVIDIA usually doesn't announce features until the NDA is lifted, or until the last month before release.
    Again they only mention the games they have their tech in or collaborated with. And as you mentioned, GTA 5 was featured in an article on the site(as well as their facebook page). As for COD I remember seeing it on their facebook page as well, don't remember when though.
    It IS important, especially when all the parts of the series released on an annual basis was that "company x heavy" (as in the case of COD).
     
  10. lanek

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    - Its not because i point Ubisoft that i mean other studio don't..

    - On the second point, it is exactly what i was mean, Crysis a good example, but again TXAA, if it is part of gamework now, is not really a gamework features ( it is more a stand-alone features than the other ) You was able before and you can too now implement it outside gamweork, Like PhysX, dont forget the nature of Gamweork is to regoup features who was allready available under a same library name.

    - For GTA5, as i have said, i cant find that "NOW" this game is still a TWITMP games, and like i have specified, TWITMP dont equal Gamewroks )..

    I know the game was part of Nvidia program, but i know too that it could not be the case anymore as the relation between them are really cold right now.. ( maybe because Mantle, but i will not bet on it, i dont trust any second that GTA5 is including the support of Mantle, but Nvidia is not really happy that they are explore Mantle possibility, same for Activision )..
     
    #1810 lanek, Jul 11, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2014
  11. DavidGraham

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    Last time NV spoke about GTA5 was after E3 this year (merely a month ago), so I think this strongly implies the connection is still there.
     
  12. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
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    Even if the connection is there, it doesn't necessarily mean they can't support Mantle.

    I think this one was pulled from NVIDIA's site, but it's supposedly legit:
    http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2zqd8q0&s=8#.U7_q3suKAwF

    Civilization Beoyond Earth mentions use of NV's HBAO+ for example, but it still supports Mantle, too.
     
  13. DavidGraham

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    I agree. My only objection here is about time, they signed in too late to implement it in a game released mere months away. But then again they could be planning to implement it later via a late patch.
    Yeah, I was the one who pulled it.
    Last time I spoke to NV PR, I asked them about Beoyond Earth, they didn't want to talk about it, just stated that further announcements will be revealed in time, can't decide if that means it's still a part of their agenda or not.
     
  14. lanek

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    I compltetely agree with you, times, the fact it is Rockstar (they have start to hired developpers for the PC version when they had allready released the xbox and PS version ), all of this tend to believe, do additional work for implement Mantle is at 99% impossible ( well outside if Nvidia is sponsoring the pc version or not question) ... Again i dont see them do it.. Not for this game, maybe another IP.
     
    #1814 lanek, Jul 11, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2014
  15. DieH@rd

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  16. pjbliverpool

    pjbliverpool B3D Scallywag
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    Cool, that's a pretty nice win for AMD. Although I can't see this game being overly CPU heavy. I assume it's a 30fps game on the XBO? Should be interesting to see what kind of CPU it takes to lock the game at that on the PC using the Mantle path.
     
  17. Malo

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    Wow Fall 2014 release and with Mantle? Nice!
     
  18. gkar1

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    Every game using Cryengine will support Mantle. I fully expect the recently announced moba Arena of Fate and Hunt: Horrors of the Gilded Age to support Mantle as well.
     
  19. kukreknecmi

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    So Mantle support/can execute hand written AMD_IL code? I'm not %100 sure but we cant use AMD_IL on Windows for Dx, right? From my understanding if Mantle allows directly to use AMD_IL, it may mean allowing a bit more flexibility.

    On Rendering BF4 with Mantle presentation it was said that ""Could write AMDIL directly "", so it may also accept AMD_IL as code input?

    Side Question : Is there any way to code GCN ISA directly on Windows, without need an external Assembler? Somehow Mantle/AMD will allow that?
     
  20. Ike Turner

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