AMD Mantle API [updating]

Discussion in 'Rendering Technology and APIs' started by MarkoIt, Sep 26, 2013.

  1. lanek

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    2,469
    Likes Received:
    315
    Location:
    Switzerland
    I think it is minimize the things a little bit here.

    Games takes time to be made, games who will be released in the next months are allready in developpement since a long time, and i dont see the developpers suddenly deciding to change direction or add ressources for developp Mantle ( without saying studio budgets allowed for games currently in developement are not really extensible).

    Now you have many big game engines who will support Mantle: CryEngine, Frostbyte, Oxyde etc etc etc .. Thoses engines have been annonced as used in many games for the end of this year and the next years. So if developpers want add Mantle support it will be really more easy now as a good part of the work is allready made.
     
    #1701 lanek, May 22, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: May 22, 2014
  2. pjbliverpool

    pjbliverpool B3D Scallywag
    Legend

    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    Messages:
    7,705
    Likes Received:
    907
    Location:
    Guess...
    This is the crux of it, even though the engines support Mantle, will be see the big games built on this engine supporting it? I hope so, but to have a truly appreciable impact on PC gaming as a whole you need to be hitting a significant percentage of ALL high end PC games and not just a very select few.

    I hope Mantle can pull this off and I take on board yours and 3dcgi's comments about timing but I'll be very dissapointed if for example at least 50% of all UE4 and CryEngine games announed from this point forwards don't also announce Mantle support.
     
  3. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Messages:
    8,850
    Likes Received:
    2,772
    Location:
    Finland
    I wouldn't hold my breath on any UE(4) game ever supporting Mantle, unless the game dev implements the support by themselves (like in case of Thief), Epic is too deep in bed with NV to build the support to the engine directly
     
  4. Silent_Buddha

    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    16,983
    Likes Received:
    6,233
    Yeah, unless they start to lose a lot of engine licensing to Crytek due to Mantle it's doubtful Nvidia would take kindly to them supporting it Considering their close partnership with Nvidia, they'll try to wait it out until Dx12.

    Regards,
    SB
     
  5. NThibieroz

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2013
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    8
  6. Arwin

    Arwin Now Officially a Top 10 Poster
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    May 17, 2006
    Messages:
    17,947
    Likes Received:
    1,518
    Location:
    Maastricht, The Netherlands

    I was never a big fan of UE as a platform, but it's not getting any better with this kind of thing.
     
  7. Dave Baumann

    Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh...
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    14,081
    Likes Received:
    651
    Location:
    O Canada!
    And to answer that very point, our current projection points to Mantle adoption being roughly as fast, to faster in option than DX11:

    http://community.amd.com/community/amd-blogs/amd-gaming/blog/2014/05/28/mantle-101

    A few more blogs as well:

    http://community.amd.com/community/.../05/28/mantle-in-the-words-of-game-developers
    http://community.amd.com/community/amd-blogs/amd-gaming/blog/2014/05/28/the-performance-of-mantle
    http://community.amd.com/community/...05/28/mantle-the-start-of-low-overhead-future
     
  8. pjbliverpool

    pjbliverpool B3D Scallywag
    Legend

    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    Messages:
    7,705
    Likes Received:
    907
    Location:
    Guess...
    Cheers, that all sounds very promising but the real killer app for you would be something like Watch Dogs that has crazy high CPU requirements that you can bring right down with Mantle. Hopefully there's something like that on the pipeline and we'll hear about it soon.
     
  9. ToTTenTranz

    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    10,813
    Likes Received:
    5,380
    I think you're assuming that AMD's strategy with Mantle is similar to nVidia's Gameworks, where supposedly they approach developers to use their tools and unoptimize games for AMD cards.

    AFAICS, it's the other way around. Developers themselves seem eager to have something like Mantle to use and it's in their best interest to approach AMD.
    It's not AMD's need or job to go after developers and secure big titles (what you call "killer app") in order to block nVidia from having better performance.


    Mantle's adoption rate seems really good, nevertheless.
     
  10. Malo

    Malo Yak Mechanicum
    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2002
    Messages:
    7,532
    Likes Received:
    3,572
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I'm sure the developers would love to implement Mantle and really push the limits of their products. Someone like Ubisoft no the otherhand probably wouldn't see the financial benefit of doing so, especially given their relationships with Nvidia.
     
  11. cringe

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2014
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Does Mantle use page-flipping or a render ahead queue for triple buffered vsync?
     
  12. Arwin

    Arwin Now Officially a Top 10 Poster
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    May 17, 2006
    Messages:
    17,947
    Likes Received:
    1,518
    Location:
    Maastricht, The Netherlands
    I have no actual knowledge of Mantle, but on a very generic level I would assume that Mantle is low-level enough to leave those aspects completely up to the developer?
     
  13. Andrew Lauritzen

    Moderator Veteran

    Joined:
    May 21, 2004
    Messages:
    2,526
    Likes Received:
    454
    Location:
    British Columbia, Canada
    I'm pretty sure that Mantle goes through DXGI just like DX or GL. i.e. there's an interface to do any graphics on Windows that you ultimately have to go through and that handles the swap chain and display. (Otherwise how would you do Mantle rendering in a Window?) Thus it's the same as DX/GL on Windows.
     
  14. Dave Glue

    Regular

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    634
    Likes Received:
    25
    Have to say Dave and the rest of the AMD Mantle team, very impressed with the latest beta Catalyst and the latest Thief patch with regards to Mantle performance.

    I probably have a decently realistic system for Mantle - an A8-5600k APU + R9 270X GPU, so it's not an extremely unbalanced system but in most cases with modern games I'm going to be CPU limited likely before GPU - and of course, GPU limitations are far easier to circumvent as one can easily just pare back resolution/AA if they have a frame rate target in mind.

    The previous drivers/pre-latest Thief patch demonstrated periods of significantly increased framerate, but also frequent periods of stuttering. This is now largely eliminated, so far well into the second level and I've had some very brief (likely ~50fps) drops from 60, but otherwise locked at 60fps 95% of the time. That's with every graphical option maxxed at 1080p, the only exception no SSAA which of course is extremely demanding so I leave that off. But no automatic texture management forced, image-based reflection turned on, etc - 60fps pretty much solid.

    DX11 frequently drops to ~30fps frequently when overlooking large areas, so Mantle pretty much doubles my performance in these situations and provides a far more consistently smooth experience. Impressive, albeit somewhat frustrating thinking how much smoother other CPU limited games could be if they weren't trying to plow through DX's overhead.
     
  15. elect

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2012
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    5
  16. Malo

    Malo Yak Mechanicum
    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2002
    Messages:
    7,532
    Likes Received:
    3,572
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    When does that graph officially start for Mantle since it's not actually "released"?
     
  17. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
    Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2003
    Messages:
    8,850
    Likes Received:
    2,772
    Location:
    Finland
    Since it starts with 1 game at 0, it has to be when Mantle-patch for BF4 and Mantle-drivers were released.
     
  18. Malo

    Malo Yak Mechanicum
    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2002
    Messages:
    7,532
    Likes Received:
    3,572
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Yes when they officially release Mantle it will start at 1 because of BF4 but I don't believe AMD consider this slide to have started yet.
     
  19. 3dilettante

    Legend Alpha

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2003
    Messages:
    8,345
    Likes Received:
    3,851
    Location:
    Well within 3d
    The graph is labeled as tracking API or driver launch. BF4's Mantle roll-out mostly coincided with AMD's Mantle driver release.
    Additionally, the latest Thief game also supports Mantle.
     
  20. Malo

    Malo Yak Mechanicum
    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2002
    Messages:
    7,532
    Likes Received:
    3,572
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Given the timing on the graph that would mean 2 more titles are imminent release for Mantle.
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...