AMD Mantle API [updating]

The question is: when will the Windows DX12 install base overtake the AMD Mantle compatible hardware install base ...

 

I think dx12 was developed in years, not in just few months because mantle, don't you think?

 

But how do you know it's not years away...?

 

so, are you claiming that DX11.x was thought to be the end of the road and there had been nothing in MS' minds for development? WOW!

well, I think it will be released next year! Just my modest prediction!

 

I mean that looks strange to me that mantle is the unique or main reason beyond the development of dx12, because i think that an entire set of Api i think is developed in much more times than few months

 

Roy Taylor at AMD has said that..www.techpowerup.com/182416/there-wo...t-of-next-bundle-amd-vice-president.html?cp=3

 

MS haven't given a sh1t about PC gaming for a long time, so yeah I do suspect that DX11 was more or less it from them, at least in the near term (priorities can change over time).

It took competition which threatened their monopoly on the graphics API (and thus Windows lock in for PC gamers) to drive them into action. To be fair, I'll bet their shrinking OS market share and the introduction of SteamOS also played a part.

 

In which case, wouldn't the XBOX One launch, their own internally developed device completely reliant on DX, have been the ideal intersect point?

 

I could see Mantle pushing the DX forward, but not directly. I think Mantle has encouraged Nvidia to expose some of its gpus' lower level functionality, thereby giving MS an opportunity to release a new lighter weight version of DX that caters to more than just a subset of Windows users who have GCN based gpus.

 

It sounds very unmicrosoft to simply halt development on an API and deliberately let the competition catch up and surpass.

Let's first see when DX12 will be available and if it requires new HW features.

If it's available soon or if it requires hardware features (especially this one!), then it's pretty much guaranteed that it was in development before Mantle was announced.

 

then the guy from AMD was wrong:

AMD’s Roy Taylor Started the Obituary of DirectX, but Microsoft Says Not So Fast

Microsoft, for its part, denies Mr. Taylor’s earlier claim that DirectX is ending anytime soon.

“DirectX is the world’s leading low-level interface for gaming and graphics. Microsoft is actively investing in DirectX as the unified graphics foundation for all of our platforms,” the company said in a statement. “DirectX is evolving and will continue to evolve. We have absolutely no intention of stopping innovation with DirectX.”

Microsoft’s statement seems to be as bland and perfunctory as any denial-of-rumour release. But as Mr. Taylor is far from an uninformed outsider (he stressed in e-mails that he wasn’t authorized to speak on Microsoft’s behalf), one has to wonder what he knows that brought him to make his claim that the end of DirectX was nigh.

 

I got mostly the feeling, that DX12 was absolutely not what it will be now...

I dont think we will have got any anouncement about a future DX"12" version so early, not before windows 9 is starting to show up.

DirectX 11.2 on console is allready made with a more " close to metal " approach ( Close to metal in this case is a bit exagerate i aggree )... I can imagine Mantle have push MS to reevaluate his position and take this road for the PC version.

 

Actually this should be directly based on GCN1.0/1.1 and Kepler/Fermi. If it's based on Mantle concepts, it's a direct response to Mantle and it should work right where Mantle works, i.e. on existing mid- to high-end hardware.

Also they mention Qualcomm as a session sponsor, which means Qualcom solutions will be showcased, and even their latest Adreno 420 is said to be a D3D11 compliant part (and anything 200-300-series was just D3D9).


[post=1831076]As I said above[/post], I would also expect Microsoft to introduce a streamlined display driver model with a unified API for both D3D9 (mobile) and D3D10/D3D11 hardware, not two separate DDI9 and DDI10/11 as in WDDM 1.x and Direct3D 11.x That way programmers will have a choice of using familiar D3D10/11 API and a "lighweight" D3D11 runtime, which will span feature_level_9_1 to feature_level_11_1, or move to a new streamlined D3D12 API which will probably require at least feature_level_11_1 as a start, that is support for tesselation stage and hull/domain shaders in addition to pixel/vertex/geometry shaders.

 

I dunno what they intended to say with this, but all I gathered from it was "Indeed there will be no DirectX 12".

 

How would they get someone to build an intergrated CPU/GPU from the PC world for an unreleased API with unfinalised hardware requirements?

 

MS is not a disinterested party. I'm sure they see advantages to holding back PC gaming performance so that it is on par with consoles. It's not dissimilar to what they did holding the balance of power during the HD-DVD/Blu-ray battle when everything was stalled until digital downloads caught up.

It's funny how so many people have decried Mantle whilst holding up DX as the level playing field that neither Nvidia nor AMD control, but have completely forgotten that MS have their own agendas too. When it comes to gaming, I'm not believing anything they say on gaming, just what they do.

Jason Holtman left MS after being poached from Valve/Steam - after six months:

And there's always this:

 

That there is one fine chronicle of corporate bullshit speak.

If Xbox didn't exist and MS was trying to push Windows against Playstation then I imagine things would be a bit more "focused" for PC gaming. It would be interesting if Xbox was running regular Windows 8, blurring the lines between platforms. But obviously they prefer total control and lockdown on Xbox.

 

I agree, D3D 12 should not require new hardware features (but perhaps be able to use some of the latest ones)

I guess it would run on GCN 1.0, Fermi, and Ivy Bridge. I have no clear idea if you'd rather need Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge or Haswell and it's probable D3D 12 draws the line at one of them. Ivy Bridge feels nice since it can see some driver support while Sandy be let to age comparatively, and it would imply the Bay Trail Atom/Celeron/Pentium stuff gets D3D 12 support.

 

Now coming to Xbox One!

twitter.com/DirectX12

The GDC announcement has also been updated with the Xbox One logo.

 

If true, then that pretty much confirms Kepler and GCN are forward compatible with DX12. Pretty good news I think.

Also I think that confirms DX12 is just a direct response to Mantle.