Alternative distribution to optical disks : SSD, cards, and download*

[-tkf-]

Avatar is 1 movie , dozens of others required DD and/or DVD added into the box to sell.

But you have no proof of this, it´s just you that makes up stuff like this without proving anything.

I on the other hand picked an exceptional good selling Blu-Ray with zero DD and it still sold like hot bread.

Blu-Ray won the war against HD-DVD and ever since it has been gaining ground on DVD as well and if they included popcorn and free coke with the Blu-Ray editions it would still be one more Blu-Ray disc in the wild, one more disc that just needs a Blu-Ray player, for example in a next gen console from Nintendo or Microsoft.

And Blu-Ray is doing exceptional well

From Patsu´s posts:

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=5711

DEG: $2.3 Billion Revenue from Blu-ray in 2010, 11 Million BD Players Sold Share
Posted January 7, 2011 03:29 AM by Juan Calonge

According to the Digital Entertainment Group (DEG), Blu-ray software sales rose 68% in 2010, with $1.8 billion sales revenue. BD rentals were also up 24% in brick-and-mortar outlets. Regarding hardware, 11.25 million Blu-ray playback devices – including set-top players and game consoles – sold in calendar 2010 (six million of them in the fourth quarter).

Overall, home entertainment spending was $18.8 billion, down 3%.

The total number of Blu-ray playback devices in U.S. households increased to 27.5 million, up 62%.

More than 170 million Blu-ray Discs shipped to market in calendar 2010 (73 million in the fourth quarter). Nearly 350 million Blu-ray Discs have shipped since launch.

Sales of catalog titles on Blu-ray are up 52%, according to PC World citing DEG figures

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=5870

The German Federal Association for Audiovisual Media (BVV) has released figures for the home video market for 2010. During the year, Blu-ray sold 12.0 million units, a growth of 94% over sales in 2009. Revenues from Blu-ray sales were 193 million euros (62% up). Thanks to that, home video sales grew both in units and in revenue over the figures from the previous year. Around one of every seven home video euros comes now from Blu-ray.

 

[corduroygt]

I disagree with you completely.

$20 for a HD DD on itunes is pricing the content out of the market when bluray/dvd/dd is priced the same.

Once HD DD gets down to $10 for the movie sales will start to greatly increase

Guess who controls the pricing? Movie studios.
Guess what they want? To make as much money as possible.
What's the most profitable movie product people are willing to spend money on? Blu-ray.

Therefore what hollywood wants is to charge per view with DD and have a high margin purchase option by Blu-ray.
You have been proven wrong before by your high def format choice in the past, so I'd say going by what you disagree on is more likely to succeed.

 

[AlphaWolf]

and yet still much slower than the uptake on DVD. It really doesn't matter.

The only thing that matters in this thread is whether blu-ray is essential to a next gen console. .

 

[-tkf-]

I disagree with you completely.

$20 for a HD DD on itunes is pricing the content out of the market when bluray/dvd/dd is priced the same.

Once HD DD gets down to $10 for the movie sales will start to greatly increase

Do you honestly think that Blu-Ray will die as a format within the next Console generation?
You know, the format that isn´t done growing yet and provides Billions of revenue right now?
That DD will be more wide spread and supported worldwide compared to Blu-Ray during the next gen?

Can you 100% honestly say that you believe there is no market for Blu-Ray during the next generation of consoles?

 

[-tkf-]

and yet still much slower than the uptake on DVD. It really doesn't matter.

The only thing that matters in this thread is whether blu-ray is essential to a next gen console. .

And how dows the slower uptake compared to DVD relate to that?

 

[hoho]

Guess who controls the pricing? Movie studios.
Guess what they want? To make as much money as possible.
What's the most profitable movie product people are willing to spend money on? Blu-ray.

Going by steam example I doubt very highly that physical media gives nearly as much profits for producers than DD does. Cutting out all the production, transportation and retail stuff will leave far more money for the original authors.

 

[AlphaWolf]

And how dows the slower uptake compared to DVD relate to that?

blu-ray sales are only about 20% of DVD sales, so it certainly implies that about 80% of the market doesn't really give a damn about blu-ray at this point in time. Therefore somewhere around 80% of your target market wouldn't see the lack of blu-ray in a console as an inconvenience. I'd argue its higher than that, because the people who are buying blu-ray probably already have a player.

 

[-tkf-]

blu-ray sales are only about 20% of DVD sales, so it certainly implies that about 80% of the market doesn't really give a damn about blu-ray at this point in time. Therefore somewhere around 80% of your target market wouldn't see the lack of blu-ray in a console as an inconvenience. I'd argue its higher than that, because the people who are buying blu-ray probably already have a player.

I never buy DVD´s anymore, they are only usefull when they come "free" with the Blu-Ray, easier to rip for the car. So just like the PS3´s main selling point at it´s launch was Blu-Ray the next gen console that doesn´t have a Blu-Ray player will be pretty shitty in my eyes. I hope at least Nintendo includes it, and i think they are very likely considering their .jp audience.

And would guess the 20% just like me prefers another Blu-Ray player instead of a useless DVD player or HD-DVD (snicker)

 

[Squilliam]

the next gen console that doesn´t have a Blu-Ray player will be pretty shitty in my eyes. I hope at least Nintendo includes it, and i think they are very likely considering their .jp audience.

What? Don't you have enough Blu Ray players already? Do you need to move your PS3 to the kitchen when you get your next generation console? Only room for one item in your home theatre system?

 

[AlphaWolf]

I never buy DVD´s anymore, they are only usefull when they come "free" with the Blu-Ray, easier to rip for the car. So just like the PS3´s main selling point at it´s launch was Blu-Ray the next gen console that doesn´t have a Blu-Ray player will be pretty shitty in my eyes. I hope at least Nintendo includes it, and i think they are very likely considering their .jp audience.

And how is blu-ray or dvd essential to the success of a console in 2013 and beyond?

And would guess the 20% just like me prefers another Blu-Ray player instead of a useless DVD player or HD-DVD (snicker)

I was never suggesting that any of that 80% or more needed or wanted a console to play back their movie collection. I suspect they already have numerous devices for that purpose.

 

[Squilliam]

Whats the time Mr Alpha Wolf? I think its time to book it from this conversation, I suspect its going round and round because the level of coversation has fallen below idiot and you haven't the experience to compete.

 

[corduroygt]

Going by steam example I doubt very highly that physical media gives nearly as much profits for producers than DD does. Cutting out all the production, transportation and retail stuff will leave far more money for the original authors.

It doesn't work the same in the movie world. Walmart pays a pretty penny for DVD and Blu-ray movies (about $17 per DVD last I checked) since they're used as loss leaders to get you into the store and buy other stuff. Pressing a disc, complete with packaging and shipping costs less than a dollar.

 

[eastmen]

It doesn't work the same in the movie world. Walmart pays a pretty penny for DVD and Blu-ray movies (about $17 per DVD last I checked) since they're used as loss leaders to get you into the store and buy other stuff. Pressing a disc, complete with packaging and shipping costs less than a dollar.

They get it for less than that. If your a best buy employee you get titles for $5-10 cheaper (depending on what it is , some collections have as much as a $50 mark up)


http://www.amazon.com/Inception-Two...981E/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1297633291&sr=8-2


Amazon is selling inception for $14 vs the $17 you quoted for. I don't see how it would benfit amazon to sell it at a loss .

Also how do you come up with the figure of less than a dollar for disc /packaging /shipping .

 

[corduroygt]

Amazon is selling inception for $14 vs the $17 you quoted for. I don't see how it would benfit amazon to sell it at a loss .

On release week, not months after...

Also how do you come up with the figure of less than a dollar for disc /packaging /shipping .

It's called common sense.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

It's called common sense.

Something which shouldn't at all be used when trying to make a point. In the end without anything to back it up it's just your lone opinion.

Regards,
SB

 

[corduroygt]

Something which shouldn't at all be used when trying to make a point. In the end without anything to back it up it's just your lone opinion.

Regards,
SB

How much do you think it costs to press a plastic disc, some cardboard artwork and ship it along with a million other copies by truck? There are $1-2 DVD's sold at retailers with non-negative profit margins.

 

[manux]

Something which shouldn't at all be used when trying to make a point. In the end without anything to back it up it's just your lone opinion.

Regards,
SB

Well, here is some numbers http://www.newcyberian.com/blu-ray.html
for 100,000 blu-rays the cost is $ 1.10 per disc to a total of $ 110,000.00 for order of 100000 discs. It seems that adding a case to discs costs additional 52 sents per disc coming to a total of $1.62 per disc. This price includes the profit for the provider and hence pressing blu-ray discs has to be cheaper than this price in order for the operation to be sustainable.

I think good estimate for millions of copies can be done by extrapolating the numbers on that provider. For sony the mileage ofcourse is different as they press their own discs. Guessing that big publishers ordering tens of millions discs a year get better pricing deals than someone who just takes one time of 100k discs seems a no brainer to me.

DVD9 looks to be around 50sents for similar order sizes. So I guess that can be taken as a lower bound reachable for optical media in mass production. Casing pricing is similar on dvd and blu-ray.

 

[corduroygt]

Well, here is some numbers http://www.newcyberian.com/blu-ray.html
for 100,000 blu-rays the cost is $ 1.10 per disc to a total of $ 110,000.00 for order of 100000 discs. It seems that adding a case to discs costs additional 52 sents per disc coming to a total of $1.62 per disc. This price includes the profit for the provider and hence pressing blu-ray discs has to be cheaper than this price in order for the operation to be sustainable.

95% of all Blu-ray discs are made by Sony DADC, they press discs by the hundreds of millions, and they can give lower prices than these guys due to cross-licensing agreements with other patent holders so they don't have to make as many royalty payments as the other replicators:
http://concurrentmedia.com/2010/03/11/blu-ray-licensed-to-be-killed/

 

[aaronspink]

It doesn't work the same in the movie world. Walmart pays a pretty penny for DVD and Blu-ray movies (about $17 per DVD last I checked) since they're used as loss leaders to get you into the store and buy other stuff. Pressing a disc, complete with packaging and shipping costs less than a dollar.

Um, no. Walmart isn't paying $17 per disc. I would be surprised if they were even paying $10 per disc. And no, you don't dedicate whole rows of shelf space to loss leaders.

 

[corduroygt]

Um, no. Walmart isn't paying $17 per disc. I would be surprised if they were even paying $10 per disc. And no, you don't dedicate whole rows of shelf space to loss leaders.

The same Walmart that will have absolutely no problems stocking big dd-only console boxes with super slim profit margins without any chance to sell any software according to you demands 100% profit margins from movies that take up little space? Someone's being inconsistent here.