Alternative distribution to optical disks : SSD, cards, and download*

[Tahir2]

So we should all expect to wait an hour for the game to download onto the hard drive and then a few more minutes (maybe another 20 minutes) for the game to install.

With the download caps and net neutrality bill it will make it harder for consumers to get an internet package that will allow them to download oodles of data for a standard package.

Thanks, but no thanks. With all their cons discs are fine by me (and most people too it seems).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Speedtest.net runs about 25,000 connection tests per hour. Here is the global data:
http://speedtest.net/global.php#0

I don't see anything standing in the way of digital distribution other than download caps.

Some thread around here has gone into this. Mean averages aren't an accurate measure. Speedtest reports an average of 9.98 Mbps for the UK, yet the comments section in the Gadget Show's broadband test shows wildly differing speeds. Many of us don't get above 6 Mbps. It's quite possible those mean average are made up of 25% of users on really fast broadband and 75% on slow broadband. There's also the question of who is submitting tests. There's a reasonable possibility that people upgrading their internet to faster BB use speedtest to see how much faster they are, while users who are on slower connection don't much care, or that the sort of person who is wanting to know how fast their BB is is the sort of person more inclined to invest in faster BB anyway.

Thus Speedtest cannot be trusted to provide a good indicator of the console gamer's BB connectivity and if DD only is viable.

 

[corduroygt]

I'd like a netflix type of service that lets you play older games as much as you want for a monthly subscription. Seems like a very good, consumer friendly way to combat used game sales.

 

[Squilliam]

Digital distribution already works with most smaller titles, Arcade games etc. All that is needed is for the main boxed titles to catch up. Quite likely broadband speeds will increase faster than the net average increase in asset size for the next generation so for one to pass the other and become viable for a reasonably large segment of the game playing population seems likely.

 

[Svensk Viking]

I guess my speed is ok(8mbit down, 1mbit up...Scandinavia) and there is no way that I would support digital distribution
If the PS3 is any indication of how big games in the future will be, it would take hours to download a game, not to mention how slow it would be surfing on the internet while it downloaded

 

[Mobius1aic]

I guess my speed is ok(8mbit down, 1mbit up...Scandinavia) and there is no way that I would support digital distribution
If the PS3 is any indication of how big games in the future will be, it would take hours to download a game, not to mention how slow it would be surfing on the internet while it downloaded

That's why I'm glad µTorrent lets you allocate bandwidth. It helps to have a 10+ MBit connection too.

In reference to the limited download speeds, why not utilize a setup that allows the game to start once the game engine + whatever amount of required assets to get the first level going, etc. I guess it would not be too different from Halo 2 on Vista, where you could start to play the game as it was installing. Of course, this download model would also be dependent on the game type, as an open world game or multiplayer title would somewhat be difficult to implement as such, but for straight up single player (and perhaps co-op assuming you would still have enough bandwidth for MP), MMOs (where the area limits are easy to keep under control), and other types of games.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Digital distribution is not a realistic method until net infrastructure improves in several countries.

That's not a problem, IMO, if they also implement digitally signed copies of games that you can load onto a removeable storage device (USB mass storage device or something proprietary but re-useable). That would allow you to purchase and download at a friends place, or even at Kiosks located at stores (Walmart, 7-11, whatever) and then copy it onto your device at home, where it then connects online to both verify file integrity as well as verifying ownership.

Some thread around here has gone into this. Mean averages aren't an accurate measure. Speedtest reports an average of 9.98 Mbps for the UK, yet the comments section in the Gadget Show's broadband test shows wildly differing speeds. Many of us don't get above 6 Mbps. It's quite possible those mean average are made up of 25% of users on really fast broadband and 75% on slow broadband. There's also the question of who is submitting tests. There's a reasonable possibility that people upgrading their internet to faster BB use speedtest to see how much faster they are, while users who are on slower connection don't much care, or that the sort of person who is wanting to know how fast their BB is is the sort of person more inclined to invest in faster BB anyway.

Thus Speedtest cannot be trusted to provide a good indicator of the console gamer's BB connectivity and if DD only is viable.

Especially when you consider the people most likely to frequent Speedtest and other related broadband speed testing sites are those with fast connections that want to verify they are getting good speeds or wanting to brag about how fast of a connection they have. And then a minority of the tested connections will be those troubleshooting their connection.

Regards,
SB

 

[JPT]

That's not a problem, IMO, if they also implement digitally signed copies of games that you can load onto a removeable storage device (USB mass storage device or something proprietary but re-useable). That would allow you to purchase and download at a friends place, or even at Kiosks located at stores (Walmart, 7-11, whatever) and then copy it onto your device at home, where it then connects online to both verify file integrity as well as verifying ownership.



Especially when you consider the people most likely to frequent Speedtest and other related broadband speed testing sites are those with fast connections that want to verify they are getting good speeds or wanting to brag about how fast of a connection they have. And then a minority of the tested connections will be those troubleshooting their connection.

Regards,
SB

Look at the quarterly report from Akamai, state of the internet or something like that. They tell us the avg speed per country usually and its based on content downloaded from their network. Which basically means any and all users that access any kind of multimedia stuff.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Look at the quarterly report from Akamai, state of the internet or something like that. They tell us the avg speed per country usually and its based on content downloaded from their network. Which basically means any and all users that access any kind of multimedia stuff.

Using their numbers for 5Mb or better
San Jose 36%
Vancouver 54%
Calgary 45%
Chicago 11%
LA 25%

Problem is that doesn't necessarily tell you availability, it tells you a combination of availability and affordability vs need.

I have 15Mb, could get 25 for ~$10 more, but have little use for it.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Look at the quarterly report from Akamai, state of the internet or something like that. They tell us the avg speed per country usually and its based on content downloaded from their network. Which basically means any and all users that access any kind of multimedia stuff.

Sure but that's completely academic if, as I mentioned, you were able to purchase and load a digitally signed copy onto a removeable and reuseable mass storage device at a Kiosk in some retail location or perhaps even on a street corner. That Kiosk would obviously have the ability to locally store every single game being sold bypassing the internet entirely.

Piracy wouldn't be a problem with a locked down console and requirement that files are both digitally signed AND require online verification of ownership. Even if the digital signature was hacked, the online verification would still be required to copy the file to your console and activate it to allow it to run.

And then for people who have the ability to download it digitally, they can do just that.

All in all that's a win for consumers, a win for corporations, and a win for the environment (less waste from packaging, manufacturing, and transportation).

Hell make the reuseable mass storage device double as an ebook reader that can display the game manual, and it's even more of a win.

Regards,
SB

 

[Prophecy2k]

That's not a problem, IMO, if they also implement digitally signed copies of games that you can load onto a removeable storage device (USB mass storage device or something proprietary but re-useable). That would allow you to purchase and download at a friends place, or even at Kiosks located at stores (Walmart, 7-11, whatever) and then copy it onto your device at home, where it then connects online to both verify file integrity as well as verifying ownership.

Ooooor... you could simply just buy an optical disc from the store, not have to wait around for anything, bring it home, pop it in your machine and you'd be away.

Far more secure than any kind of USB/re-usable (and easily hackable) mass storage device like you suggest, and much more convenient for a user who doesn't have a strong enough internet connection for a fully DD console.

The old addage... "if it's not broke..." comes to mind ;-)

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Ooooor... you could simply just buy an optical disc from the store, not have to wait around for anything, bring it home, pop it in your machine and you'd be away.

Far more secure than any kind of USB/re-usable (and easily hackable) mass storage device like you suggest, and much more convenient for a user who doesn't have a strong enough internet connection for a fully DD console.

The old addage... "if it's not broke..." comes to mind ;-)

Or in less time than it takes for you to check out at the store you can insert your storage device, swipe your credit card/gift card, take out your device and go home and play your game.

Or even better, not even leave your house in the first place and just download it digitally if you have a broadband connection without caps.

And for people that care about those things, they can pat themselves on the back for saving the planet because duplicating the media didn't require toxic chemicals, won't result in any paper or plastic waste going into landfills, won't have used any petrol in transporting those media around the globe, yada yada yada...

It's a win/win in all ways. There are zero drawbacks. Well, other than not being able to resell used copies. But I could care less about that anyway, and I'd be fine if the used game market disappeared.

Regards,
SB

 

[corduroygt]

Or in less time than it takes for you to check out at the store you can insert your storage device, swipe your credit card/gift card, take out your device and go home and play your game.

I don't know if there are any USB sticks that can write 8GB (a short game size for next gen,but I'll let it slide) in 1 minute...The kiosk method will not be popular. I see a steam-style DD model with really cheap prices from time to time (to make up for the fact that you can't sell it) and regular discs used in conjunction.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Or in less time than it takes for you to check out at the store you can insert your storage device, swipe your credit card/gift card, take out your device and go home and play your game.

Wow, what USB sticks you do use that have such fast write speed?! Isn't the current top speed something like 100MBs, hence SSD's using lots of parallel chips and stuff to get decent performance? Realistically You'd be looking at a few minutes copy time, maybe as much as ten minutes depending on game size and flash storage type.

Has anyone from Europe ever seen/used a kiosk based film or game or music system? I never recall ever seeing them or hearing about them, as if they're a regional concept that hasn't been proven in all markets for acceptibility.

 

[I.S.T.]

Nintendo back in the day had a kiosk system for the SNES, but it was Japan only. It also appeared late in the console's lifespan.

 

[JPT]

Using their numbers for 5Mb or better
San Jose 36%
Vancouver 54%
Calgary 45%
Chicago 11%
LA 25%

Problem is that doesn't necessarily tell you availability, it tells you a combination of availability and affordability vs need.

I have 15Mb, could get 25 for ~$10 more, but have little use for it.

From my point of view it points me to what my potentional customer base seems to have and make sure my services are tailored to that.

For instance DD of 50GB images is not really going to sit well in your area for me to be profitable, but 100MB would work etc.

I would not base my business modell on the hope of that my service would be of such great interest that you actually would pay 10 USD extra per month to your ISP to get it.

 

[JPT]

Has anyone from Europe ever seen/used a kiosk based film or game or music system? I never recall ever seeing them or hearing about them, as if they're a regional concept that hasn't been proven in all markets for acceptibility.

I know of such a system working in Russia for video and I am advicing on the setup of a similar system in Asia. The russian system is a success from what i have been told, but i am only involved from the technical side, so i do not have commercial info.
And especially as to why it works there, maybe dvd rental place never worked well or there is a distirbution cost that made it workable etc. Or it might be because they need localized version ie dubbed or subtitled etc.

But the long term goal for these projects are getting market share and building capital now, to go 100% online ala iTunes etc in the future, but over time.

 

[ct03]

So we should all expect to wait an hour for the game to download onto the hard drive and then a few more minutes (maybe another 20 minutes) for the game to install.

If you buy the game on Amazon, do they ship it to your house in less than an hour?

Sure, you could drive to a brick and mortar store, hope they have the game you want, buy it, drive back and be done in less than an hour. But getting a digital download is way more convenient.

 

[corduroygt]

I wonder how many people got the DC Universe beta from PSN, because that's a 15GB download, which doesn't even tell you how big it is until you start it. It took me a little more than 2 hours.

 

[Squilliam]

That's why I'm glad µTorrent lets you allocate bandwidth. It helps to have a 10+ MBit connection too.

In reference to the limited download speeds, why not utilize a setup that allows the game to start once the game engine + whatever amount of required assets to get the first level going, etc. I guess it would not be too different from Halo 2 on Vista, where you could start to play the game as it was installing. Of course, this download model would also be dependent on the game type, as an open world game or multiplayer title would somewhat be difficult to implement as such, but for straight up single player (and perhaps co-op assuming you would still have enough bandwidth for MP), MMOs (where the area limits are easy to keep under control), and other types of games.

You can already do that with some Xbox Live titles I believe. It wouldn't be too hard to roll it out for bigger games. Infact there was already talk of doing such a thing although I cannot remember from whom exactly. Anyway the thing is given that most games are over 8 hours in length it ought to be possible once you've downloaded the core assets of a title to start playing immediately. With most titles that'd probably be smaller than a GB if further loading and installing can be done in the background.

Overall it'd be quite useful if you could invite someone into a game they don't own and within 5 minutes or so they could start playing. Given the fact that multiplayer video game players already have a tendency to having the top tier internet speeds anyway it shouldn't be too hard once enough people have >20Mb connections. You can download 450MB of data in 5 minutes on such a connection and they can always substitute in the low LOD models until enough assets had been downloaded. Within half an hour on a 20Mb connection you should have 2.7GB downloaded which would be more than enough for an hours play on a next generation system.