Allard on HDD

[g35er]

Dev's do have this option, and since 99% of users will have their HDD's connected I don't see why Dev's won't utilize it.

FF11 is an example of a 360 game where a HDD is required to play.

I hope so. Based on the first few posts of this thread, Allard is either not communcating clearly or he's telling the public to not expect games that require a hd.

ot: JVD, this board is rife with speculation. As long as our lives or jobs don't depend on us being right, I don't see the harm in it. So what if we're wrong on some of our prognostications and speculation?

 

[_leech_]

...framing a basically "free" 20GB HDD as a negative is a little far fetched.

20GB HDD's are free? And aren't these notebook-sized (read: more expensive than 3.5" hard drives)? This isn't some retarded "DVD playback adds $50 to the cost of the system"-type argument, hard drives most definitely add to the cost of the system.

 

[jvd]

I hope so. Based on the first few posts of this thread, Allard is either not communcating clearly or he's telling the public to not expect games that require a hd.

ot: JVD, this board is rife with speculation. As long as our lives or jobs don't depend on us being right, I don't see the harm in it. So what if we're wrong on some of our prognostications and speculation?

The problem is when it stops being speculation and when its based on nothing .

This is a thread that has lasted this long based on nothing at all . There is not even the slightest thing backing this up

 

[scooby_dooby]

Add another game to the list that will make full use of the HDD:

Football manager 2006
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=60488

"Eurogamer: Given that PlayStation 3 also has a hard disk (although there seems to be some confusion over how much games will use it), and your support for the Sony PSP, what do you think the chances are of a PS3 version of FM, if not for this version then maybe next season?
Miles Jacobson: We know the same about PS3 as you guys. When someone wants to tell us more, then we'll be able to make decisions about it, and that's the same for any other platform holder. The team at Xbox started talking to us pretty early on and it's an honour that they want us to make games for their system, much in the same as we feel about Sony and the PSP."

 

[hongcho]

I dont' know... This could just as well be coming from "detachable" hard disks. I mean, the game can use it, but it may not assume that the disk will be always attached. I guess, we will see soon.

Hong.

 

[zifnab]

According to Todd Holmdahl (vp of the Xbox Product Group) the HDD won't be required:

Teamxbox: Do Xbox 360 games require the detachable HDD to be plugged in for them to work?

Todd Holmdahl: Xbox 360 games do not require the HDD or a Memory Unit, but Xbox Live requires one or the other to save the gamers’ account information.

http://interviews.teamxbox.com/xbox/1190/Xbox-360-Interview-Todd-Holmdahl/p2/

I would nevertheless still be surprised if it wasn't always standard, especially considering many of the new features of xbox live, which ms is really pushing, wouldn't be feesible without one. Also, I can only assume that an HDD or a memory card of substantial size will be required for a select number of games (i.e. ffxi, oblivion). It sounds more like ms is adopting a strategy that says, if the ps3 and (particularly) the revolution later on become available at a price that's difficult to compete with, then they might want to be able to offer a version without the HDD at a cheaper price. Users would however then perhaps have to acquire a large enough mem card to play select games such as mmorpgs.

 

[Ginko]

I always thought it was obvious why Microsoft chose to include an HD with the Xbox and, now, the Xbox 360. Xbox Live. They spent mega-bucks setting up online service and, at least to me, it seemed they were always pushing it into the minds of developers and consumers alike. It was a way to differentiate themselves from Sony and Nintendo and get to the forefront of online gaming (as it seems that's where gaming is headed).

Now, if there had been alot of online games for Xbox that offered downloadable content and such then it's safe to say that a memory card wouldn't have cut it. A massive storage device was the solution. Also, having the HD with the console from the get-go is an incentive for developers to utilize it, and consumers to jump onto Xbox Live and start downloading (thus encouraging more developers to make downloadable content, etc).

Xbox Live, again, is a big part of Microsoft's strategy to hook gamers. The Xbox Live account, Multi-player online, Live Arcade, Marketplace, downloadable demos and previews, Gold and Silver accounts, et al. 360 buyers won't even have to think about where all this stuff is going to be stored, all they need to do is decide whether they want a Xbox Live Gold or Silver account.

We already know that developers have expressed their opinions on the subject, and that there are several games using the 360 HD. Because it's included with every Xbox 360 there's no guessing how many people will buy an add-on AND the game. Every Xbox 360, at least at first, will have an HD. I can only reason that a game which needs (or would benefit from) an HD stands a greater chance of success on a console that comes with one than on a console that doesn't [come with a HD].

Xbox Live is a killer service, and the new additions are going to make it that much better. I hope developers make full use of it, and I hope that more consumers catch on.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

Memory cards weren't 64MB mininum when Xbox was created, having an HDD for Live isn't necessary at all.

 

[scooby_dooby]

no one said it was necessary. what thread are you reading?

live has much more potential than simply multi-player matches, while it's true multi-player doesn't not require HDD, tapping all the benefits of having a community like live, does require a HDD.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Why do you need a personal HDD for online features? Why can't you use network storage on the Live! servers?

 

[BlueTsunami]

But the point is, you don't NEED a HDD to play games online (Live!). Sure..you need a HDD to reap the full benefits of it...but its not essential to store basic online information which would allow you to play games online. Not every Xbox360 player will want to mess with the bonus downloads and paying for the micro-transactions...they'll just want to play online.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

no one said it was necessary. what thread are you reading?

Read the post above mine.

 

[Tap In]

there will be a Hard Disk Drive in Xbox 360


close thread.

 

[scooby_dooby]

But the point is, you don't NEED a HDD to play games online (Live!). Sure..you need a HDD to reap the full benefits of it...but its not essential to store basic online information which would allow you to play games online. Not every Xbox360 player will want to mess with the bonus downloads and paying for the micro-transactions...they'll just want to play online.

The point is MS has a larger strategry than allowing people to "play games online", this strategy most definately involves a HDD. Specifically downloadable games like solitaire and poker to attract the very casuals, also downloadable content and a marketplace where you can trade custom items(for the artsy peoples).

Sure you can go around and around and find some workaround in every case where you don't NEED the HDD but can we just get real!? HDD makes life much much easier, and if the point is to attract casuals then proposing that they buy extra memory cards, or store content on a network is pretty far fetched.

Basically for the 99.9% of us that don't has extra USB flash cards laying around, the HDD can only be considered a positive, any money you might save on buying a HDD_less version you would spend on a memory card and get at best 5% of the storage space. So, IMO, that 0.1% is just gonna have to suck it up!

ALso if that wasn't enough reason for why the HDD should always be bundled, we already have half a dozen games we know are using the HDD in-game. So the theory that it's nothign mnore than a big memory card obviously holds no water.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Alot of the games that require HDD are MMORPGs. If you plan on getting a MMORPG then hey, go out and get a HDD. Thing is...(and this is why theres a stance against packaging the HDD with the 360)...consumers should have the choice. Sure..the HDD may make things like that easier but if you could choose between saving money or getting a HDD that you may not need would allow more flexibilty (as opposed to no flexability at all).

That argument is sorta moot though, simply because the early buyers of the X360 will be the ones more likely to "want" the HDD. Hell...I want to have a 360 with the HDD to. I also find it weird that there are some games that are not MMORPGs and yet...they require the HDD. It seems like Microsoft didn't emphasise to these guys that they shouldn't really depend on the HDD like that..but its better then that "Don't depend on the HDD at all" stance that Sony has taken.

 

[scooby_dooby]

You have to understand that if you do "want the option" well that comes at the expense of the vast majority of gamers.

If they do "give the option" that means that games wil not support the HDD, the HDD would be more expensive than if you got it at cost(bundled), and we would also lose out on some games that would have otherwise come to the console if it had a standard HDD.

So I don't see it as anywhere near an even trade off, make 0.1% of people happy because they can use a pre-existing flash device and save a few bucks, or provide more games, better games, and a free 20GB storage device for the other 99.9%.

And you're right, the argument is VERY moot, for a number of reasons, but hey..I'm bored.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The point is MS has a larger strategry than allowing people to "play games online", this strategy most definately involves a HDD. Specifically downloadable games like solitaire and poker to attract the very casuals, also downloadable content and a marketplace where you can trade custom items(for the artsy peoples).

That can all be managed with online storage, and small games could comfortably either a) fit onto memory cards (how big is Solitaire really gonna be?!) or b) be streamed on a pay per play basis like existing Java apps. The main reasons for HDD as far as I can see that can't be catered for fairly comfortably with flash storage are personal soundtracks (something I don't personally care for - I'd rather have tailored music for the game) and streamed data for games but...

ALso if that wasn't enough reason for why the HDD should always be bundled, we already have half a dozen games we know are using the HDD in-game. So the theory that it's nothign mnore than a big memory card obviously holds no water.

...do we know for sure games ARE using the HDD? There were rumours saying devs were being told not to expect the HDD and not to write for it. Do we have any official stance on the issue of using an HDD for games for more than just saves?

 

[Tap In]

eee

...do we know for sure games ARE using the HDD? There were rumours saying devs were being told not to expect the HDD and not to write for it. Do we have any official stance on the issue of using an HDD for games for more than just saves?

from page 4 in this thread

hmm.....
Enchant Arm Update: http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/638/638323p1.html

From seems to be making use of the Xbox 360 hard disk for caching purposes in order to provide, as Takeuchi states, a stress-free, seamless experience. While it's not the case that there won't ever be a "Now Loading" screen in the game, such a screen will be very rare. This, according to Takeuchi, will be true of pretty much all Xbox 360 games, as it's something that Microsoft is taking seriously.

and from the article

 

[scooby_dooby]

That can all be managed with online storage, and small games could comfortably either a) fit onto memory cards (how big is Solitaire really gonna be?!) or b) be streamed on a pay per play basis like existing Java apps. The main reasons for HDD as far as I can see that can't be catered for fairly comfortably with flash storage are personal soundtracks (something I don't personally care for - I'd rather have tailored music for the game) and streamed data for games but...
...do we know for sure games ARE using the HDD? There were rumours saying devs were being told not to expect the HDD and not to write for it. Do we have any official stance on the issue of using an HDD for games for more than just saves?

First of all, if you say you don't like custom soundtracks, I know you have not played forza with your own tunes lined up. There's nothign like opening your menu and up starts your favourite music of all time, line-up at the red lights will born to be wild, or radar love, pumpin through the 5.1.

I love custom soundtracks, but only on games that do it right(only Forza really comes to mind, GTA: SA as well)

Games using HDD:

- Enchant Arm
- FF 11
- Football Manager 2005
- Oblivion
- Huxley (mmorpg)
- Vangaurd: Saga of Heroes (mmorpg)
- Citizen Zero (mmorpg)
- APB (mmorpg)

The last 4 are unconfirmed, but since they are mmorpg's they probably require a HDD, most seem to.

 

[g35er]

I don't mind if MS eventually sells a unit w/o a hdd, as long as developers are free to make games that require a hdd as needed. And developers will do it as long as 95 percent+ of the people have a hdd.

I can see a senario in the future where your console breaks post-warranty but the hdd is okay so you can buy a console cheap without the hdd. That's a benefit for a console only version.

One problem with not including a hdd is that some consumers who don't have a hdd will complain that their gameplay experience is not up to par and if they're not informed, they may not know that it's because they don't have a hdd to do caches, etc. They'll just say MS sucks or whatever, which could cause negative buzz.