AF again

However, just so you can see it for yourself, here are two screens, one with AF enabled, one with it disabled. Can you tell the difference? Answers at the end of the story

hmm weird becuase to me both shots plainly have AF on (4x or 8x).
 
Both images look like plain bilinear filtering. Almost identical in appearance. I don't think the reviewer knows how to turn aniso on correctly :p
 
ATI conspiracy mode on (just before someone else does it).

Its all an Nvdiai ploy to denigrate the advantages that AF brings in IQ so Gf3/4 owners dont feel bad about the performance hit of their interpretation :)

Actually I agree with the author on an either or situation I would prefer quality AA. SSAA does some of the job of AF anyway doesnt it, i.e. improved texture filtering.
 
Even though anisotropic filtering comes at a heavy performance penalty, isn't the conclusion of the article somewhat strange? I mean, it's not that hard to fire up a game a see the benefits of AF at once. For example, I thought the outdoors ground textures of Medal of Honour were quite ugly without any AF applied, or at least far too blurry. Enabling AF also seems to do wonder for bilinear-only games such as Descent3.
 
Yet another reviewer that is confused about AF. Less confused than the average reviewer though, but still confused ... and unable to turn it off for the screenshots :rolleyes:
 
Sabastian said:
Yeah the reviewer must be confused or something. AF provides substaintial IQ improvements.

You'd be hard pressed to notice any difference while playing the game...
I agree that it does provide an increase in IQ, so it's good to take pics with, but it's barely noticable when you're playing a game...

AA on the other hand is very noticable, so I would count it's usability higher than of AF. although it's very useful when they work in conjuction with each other! :)
 
You'd be hard pressed to notice any difference while playing the game...
I agree that it does provide an increase in IQ, so it's good to take pics with, but it's barely noticable when you're playing a game...


When Radeons did bilinear+AF and GeForces did trilinear+AF the difference was HUGE, now there's no difference between max AF and no AF at all. Makes you wonder...
:D
 
Umm...those pictures.

WTH?

Are they simply incompetent, or downright lying? I've never seen anyone claim a non-anisotropic filtered image looked like that before. Does it even look like that with high texture LOD? Even if it does, it seems to require either incompetence or downright dishonesty to not mention it.

Perhaps there is some driver version for one of the cards that has default settings that could do that...anyone?

What convinces me of dishonesty is the other games they mention that would clearly show the fallacy of their conclusion and statements, yet they use the SS screenshots, exclusively and without specifying anything else about game settings for example, to excuse not showing any other game shots. They also just ignore what the "ATi provided" shots show, and they warrant narry a mention at all, and picked the other sample contrast picture with an apparently ridiculously low maximum sampling level.

Really, could anyone be that honestly incompetent? Even if their particular driver version does look like that all of a sudden, with Serious Sam (though I'm more inclined to believe they used max detail settings for SS and "didn't realize" it overrode the driver settings :rolleyes: ), are we to believe that the writer has never used anisotropic filtering before now?

I'm sorry for yet another "conspiracy theory" but the source of the technical info for the article seems pretty clear to me. Also, a rather interesting timing of the article when some new parts happen to come out from a certain vendor that just don't compete very well with a certain other vendor's recent part, especially when the topic being discussed by the article is applied. :-? The "coincidences", and my general impression of commercial "technology journalism" over a long period, make this conclusion pretty solid to me. Feel free to disagree, but I reserve to believe you're silly if your reasons are based on assumed (as opposed to demonstrated and earned) journalistic integrity, ignoring the rather interesting set of market circumstances that exist when this article "coincidentally" appeared, and the source of all the quoted comments and explanations given in the article. :-?

I'm not saying ATi wasn't contacted, but I am saying that ATi's pictures were shown once and then ignored in the main point. I'm not saying they didn't get info from ATi, but I am saying it looks like that info was used only to back off from the nVidia statements, which we've seen elsewhere, that seem to be inaccurate, to only a point far enough away to begin to give the appearance of impartiality. I'm not saying there isn't new info in the article, but I am saying there is an absence of connecting what seems to be interesting technical info in any reasonable way to any conclusions or implications of the text of the article, and a complete lack of information concerning anything else about driver settings or even game settings.

Anyone know an applicable variation of the phrase "You aren't paranoid if they really ARE out to get you?" And no, I don't intend to repeat versions of this same text throughout the thread, it serves no real point. But please, accurately represent my given statements if you disagree, so we can both just let the statements stand.
 
I don't think there's any conspiracy here. In fact, if anything, they kind of beat on nVidia for telling half truths about their AF (ours is better because we use AF on everythng!). However, I think that there are some problems with the article, and especially the conclusion, which does lean a bit towards nVidia.....till you realize that the author is saying that FSAA is far more important visually, and also states the the 9700 really seperates itself from the TI4600 with the use of FSAA.

It's also worth noticing that once you disable FSAA, Radeon 9700 and GeForce Ti 4600 are much more evenly matched, though once you begin piling back on those rendering features, the R9700 has a bigger reserve tank, and will pull ahead.
 
You'd be hard pressed to notice any difference while playing the game...

Hmm I disagree. Once you now what the difference is, then its very easy. For me I play a lot of FPS like CS, SOF2, RtCW. In these games I try to use my head and pick spots to gaurd the objective (or camping as its more commanly known as). Its very easy to see the diff when you looking down a long hallway, alley, ect
 
jb said:
You'd be hard pressed to notice any difference while playing the game...

Hmm I disagree. Once you now what the difference is, then its very easy. For me I play a lot of FPS like CS, SOF2, RtCW. In these games I try to use my head and pick spots to gaurd the objective (or camping as its more commanly known as). Its very easy to see the diff when you looking down a long hallway, alley, ect
One could also see this negatively, as AF is so damn good in showing repeating texture patterns all over the screen :D

Seriously, the difference between AF and no AF is immediately noticeable.
 
Actually I agree with the author on an either or situation I would prefer quality AA. SSAA does some of the job of AF anyway doesnt it, i.e. improved texture filtering.

Yes but only up or close to a 16-tap anisotropic equivalent. Fire up SS or SS:SE for that purpose and type in the console:

/tex_bColorizeMipmaps

Use plain bilinear, Supersampling/bilinear and 2xLevel aniso/bilinear and watch for similarities between the three.

As for the article I honestly stopped reading it as soon as I saw the screenshots. If he really prefers simple FSAA scenarios then he shouldn't use Multisampling capable vga's only. If he doesn't have a clue why not, then he really shouldn't deal with issues like that in his articles. Pretty performance bars are then sufficient and any possible wanted conclusion.

Those that claim that aniso doesn't really make a noticable difference should consider buying a Xabre, nonetheless they'll get antialiasing for free.

edit:

Maybe those will help (ignore the exaggerated jpeg compression):

garden variety trilinear

trilinear1.jpg


anisotropic filtering

aniso1.jpg
 
demalion said:
Umm...those pictures.

WTH?

Are they simply incompetent, or downright lying? I've never seen anyone claim a non-anisotropic filtered image looked like that before. Does it even look like that with high texture LOD? Even if it does, it seems to require either incompetence or downright dishonesty to not mention it.

Agreed. If my GF4 looked like those non-AF shots, then I would wonder what the benefit of AF was as well. Those non-AF shots look like the LOD setting was tweaked, as SS certainly does not have that level of texture detail in the distance for the default settings, at least on my rig.
 
What boggles my mind is that Dave Salvator, the author of this article, wrote in a fall '00 issue of CGW that he could barely tell whether or not FSAA was enabled in a lot of games while using a V5 and that he wasn't "buying" 3dfx's story on the importance of good FSAA. Someone needs to make his mind up.
 
John Reynolds said:
What boggles my mind is that Dave Salvator, the author of this article, wrote in a fall '00 issue of CGW that he could barely tell whether or not FSAA was enabled in a lot of games while using a V5 and that he wasn't "buying" 3dfx's story on the importance of good FSAA. Someone needs to make his mind up.

While I could partly agree with him on his recent article about AF, FSAA not making any difference to IQ? That's utter rubbish...
 
Ail I wont requote but I do agree. V5 + 4xRGSS was good, but 8500+initial 2xSV+16xAf was a lot better overall as the detail in the disatnce was so much sharper.
 
You'd be hard pressed to notice any difference while playing the game...
I agree that it does provide an increase in IQ, so it's good to take pics with, but it's barely noticable when you're playing a game...
Play a game like Mafia and you may just revise your statement.

When I have do a lot of slow driving around in Mafia, I appreciate aniso more than AA. Which means to say I appreciate aniso more than AA in a game like Mafia. Not being able to see the white dividing lines on the road is more disturbing than aliasing.

Of course, AA is still preferred but AA + aniso in Mafia is a no go with a GF4Ti4600 due to performance reasons. I haven't checked which results in a greater performance hit (various AA vs various aniso) but I didn't bother because I felt that aniso was more important in Mafia to me than AA.
 
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