Activision CEO: “We Might Have To Stop Supporting Sony”

Many are Wii shovelware to be sure, but believe it or not, some are big titles. That "two person" example I mention is an interesting one because it actually is a name brand title believe it or not. On the surface it's easy to think that going 360->PS3 is much easier than going 360->Wii, since 360/PS3 are similar, etc. Turns out though, 360 to Wii is easier. 360->PS3 requires parity, so whatever is done on one must match the other as much as possible. 360->Wii on the other hand is a downgrade, which is easier to do. Doesn't fit in memory? Chop textures. Runs to slow? Yank some scenery out. Etc, basically it's easier to destroy than it is to create. Plus the Wii is a simple machine so you can throw an intern on it, give him free Chinese food and he will happily crank away for hours. With a 360->PS3 port if it doesn't fit in memory or if it runs to slow then you have to resolve it or your boss will kick your ass. And I definitely wouldn't throw an intern at doing a 360->PS3 port :)

That makes sense given how a game like QoS turns out, but they were developed by different studios. I can't imagine that these smaller studios would take on a project that would take, what, 1 intern 4 months to do? Wouldn't they need to assign a project manager to it -- it doesn't seem like hiring a different studio to carry out a port would be as lightweight as you say. (Do games even have project managers as such? It seems like there's very little project management methodology behind games.)

There's two basic pieces of logic behind milking the Wii. First is the dreaded shovelware method, which yeah I also hate. However, you can spit out a large number of Wii titles this way compared to a single PS3 title. Even if they all sell like crap, there is strength in numbers, so they can still as a whole outsell and out profit a single PS3 title. So on the surface it looks like ooh that Wii title crapped out, it only sold 50k units, but that same team put out numerous other titles, add them all up a and it was still a financial win.

Sure, but no one's saying they should make exclusive PS3 games (unless you're Nippon Ichi and can get away with making PS2 games on PS3). The issue is whether to build games for both platforms' userbase, 360+PS3. If the PS3 version is unwelcome, profit-wise, it's hard to imagine that the game as a whole isn't doomed, considering the 360's userbase. 360/PS3/Wii ports are difficult to find, outside of Wii Music, but in those that do, like CoD5, the PS3 version does outsell the Wii one. Wii apologists are quick to tell you that WIi owners don't want the gimped version; whatever the reality, whether it be userbase or quality, they just don't want that game (well, as much as the other platform owners do).

Here's where it gets interesting though. The magical (or nefarious depending on your point of view) thing about the Wii is that it doesn't actually take more money to hit it big. On the 360/PS3 you always need to step up your game so going forward you need better assets, crazier effects, more voice talent, etc, all stuff that takes more time, more money and more effort. On the Wii you don't need more money, you just need the right idea, and that same tiny say 5 person team can make it a million+ seller. So...even if the PS3 version is 80% done and yeah 10 to 20 people can finish the PS3 version and net 100k-400k of sales, these guys still want to find that golden goose, or golden IP in this case, on the Wii. Then for little money they can milk that IP for ridiculous profit. Their current approach has been wrong, I would agree there. They still make money on shovelware, but they won't find the golden IP that way. But dedicate a small team to make proper Wii games and then they might hit it. In the end, we all want the next Cooking Mama!

But this is what Mintmaster is objecting to. In this economy would Activision seriously forgo a serious thing for something extremely uncertain? 1 million-selling games on Wii are still extremely rare if they're not by Nintendo. Sure, just about every publisher has one million-selling minigame collection but at the same time you hear complaint after complaint that publishers and developers just can't figure the platform out.

And I think this is doubly true of Activision; they canned quite a few (mostly HD) games just because they weren't open to being exploited on every platform, every year. They're especially risk-averse, and that's probably a big part of what makes Kotick so successful (which he was even before Vivendi-Blizzard merged in).

And in fact, I'm seeing a bit of the opposite; the Wii continues to get very niche games, only copies of what has been proven to sell well, games 'specially designed for the Wii', like light-gun shooters and fitness games. We're just past E3, we're not seeing a shift of publisher dollars to the Wii. And this is 2 years after the breakout success of the Wii, I'd have expected some sort of reaction by now. All we have is Sega. Poor Sega.
 
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And regards Wii's motion games, straightforward PS3 ports of those look like an option to. For any developer worrying about the cost, I reckon a Wii game could be ported with minimal changes. Just render at 60 fps with lots of AA and a little bit of shader and lighting enhancements, and it'll look good.
 
But this is what Mintmaster is objecting to. In this economy would Activision seriously forgo a serious thing for something extremely uncertain? 1 million-selling games on Wii are still extremely rare if they're not by Nintendo. Sure, just about every publisher has one million-selling minigame collection but at the same time you hear complaint after complaint that publishers and developers just can't figure the platform out.

There are more M+ sellers which aren't Nintendo by weight of numbers. Nintendo just dominates the top of the sales chart. The Wii is hard to crack but the cheaper development gives you a lot of shots you can take within the same budget.
 
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There are more M+ sellers which aren't Nintendo by weight of numbers.

True, but not very many per publisher. No publisher besides Nintendo has cracked that audience, and I still hold that Wii Music shows that even Nintendo isn't completely sure how to create a blockbuster for them. But they do have the most valuable IP in the gaming world so that gives them a leg up.

Nintendo just dominates the top of the sales chart. The Wii is hard to crack but the cheaper development gives you a lot of shots you can take within the same budget.

True, but how many really make it big? How many flop? Ubisoft does apparently make money off the Imagine series, but as far as I understand they practically have an assembly line for those -- don't they reuse assets like mad? And those are focused on a very very specific and particularly underserved market.
 
In regard to millions sellers on the Wii quiet editor has been succesful as accordingly more than 50 titles (51 actually)sold more than 1million units. All the "only Nintendo makes money on the Wii" mantra have been proven false quiet some time.
this here for the wiii fifty best sellers, games sell for sell than a ps3 game but cost less to do.
On the ps3 only the 31 first best sellers broke the million. 65 titles did on 360
 
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In regard to millions sellers on the Wii quiet editor has been succesful as accordingly more than 50 titles (51 actually)sold more than 1million units. All the only "Nintendo makes money on the Wii" mantra have been proven false quiet some time.
this here for the wiii fifty best sellers, games sell for sell than a ps3 game but cost less to do.
On the ps3 only the 31 first best sellers broke the million. 65 titles did on 360

First of all, vgchartz is a poor reference for sales numbers. It'd be great if we could trust their numbers, they'd render most arguments moot, but we can't. Second, no one is saying that no one makes money on the Wii. What we have seen publishers/devs complain about is that none of them can figure out what the market wants, besides proven sellers -- which at this point seems to be fitness and minigames. Why did Carnival Games succeed but that EA celebrity minigame collection fail? I mean, we had a hard time explaining why Killzone 2 didn't hit great numbers, and people have been making games for that audience for over a decade. Imagine for a brand new audience that the industry constantly underestimates.
 
Here the list of the Wii games that sold as well the the fifty best selling PS3 games (~90 / according to VG charts they may be consistant... with themselves at least):
Wii Sports
Nintendo 45.66m

Wii Play
Nintendo 23.53m

Wii Fit
Nintendo 20.24m

Mario Kart Wii


Nintendo 16.24m

Super Smash Bros. Brawl


Nintendo 8.48m

Super Mario Galaxy


Nintendo 7.98m

Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games
Sega 6.97m

Mario Party 8
Nintendo 6.57m

The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess


Nintendo 5.28m

Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock
RedOctane 4.24m

Link's Crossbow Training


Nintendo 3.89m

Carnival Games
Global Star 3.32m

Big Brain Academy: Wii Degree
Nintendo 3.20m

Animal Crossing: City Folk
Nintendo 3.14m

Guitar Hero: World Tour
Activision 2.98m

Super Paper Mario
Nintendo 2.78m

LEGO Star Wars: The Complete Saga
LucasArts 2.64m

Wii Music
Nintendo 2.55m

WarioWare: Smooth Moves
Nintendo 2.23m

Sonic and the Secret Rings
Sega 2.05m

Game Party
Midway Games 2.05m

Mario Strikers Charged
Nintendo 1.97m

Deca Sports
Hudson Entertainment 1.91m

Rayman Raving Rabbids 2
Ubisoft 1.64m

Rayman Raving Rabbids
Ubisoft 1.64m

Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition


Capcom 1.58m

Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
Nintendo 1.53m

Rayman Raving Rabbids: TV Party


Ubisoft 1.46m

MySims
Electronic Arts 1.44m

High School Musical: Sing It!
Disney Interactive Studios 1.43m

Pok?mon Battle Revolution
Nintendo 1.35m

Tiger Woods PGA Tour 08
Electronic Arts 1.34m

Rock Band
MTV Games 1.32m

Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles


Capcom 1.28m

Star Wars: The Force Unleashed


LucasArts 1.28m

Smarty Pants
Electronic Arts 1.26m

Cooking Mama: Cook Off
Majesco 1.24m

Super Monkey Ball: Banana Blitz
Sega 1.24m

Big Beach Sports
THQ 1.23m

Lego Indiana Jones: The Original Adventures
LucasArts 1.22m

Shaun White Snowboarding: Road Trip


Ubisoft 1.21m

Red Steel
Ubisoft 1.19m

Call of Duty 3
Activision 1.17m

Call of Duty: World at War


Activision Blizzard 1.17m

We Ski
Namco Bandai 1.16m

Tiger Woods PGA Tour 09 All-Play
Electronic Arts 1.15m

Mario Super Sluggers
Nintendo 1.13m

Active Life: Outdoor Challenge
Namco Bandai 1.07m

My Fitness Coach
Ubisoft 1.05m

The House of the Dead 2 & 3 Return
Sega 1.02m

Ben 10: Protector of Earth
D3 Publisher 1.01m

FIFA 08
Electronic Arts 0.98m

Dance Dance Revolution: Hottest Party
Konami 0.96m

Hannah Montana: Spotlight World Tour
Disney Interactive Studios 0.96m

EA Sports Active
EA Sports 0.96m

Pro Evolution Soccer 2008
Konami 0.95m

Madden NFL 08
EA Sports 0.94m

Boom Blox


Electronic Arts 0.94m

Sonic Unleashed
Sega 0.94m

Endless Ocean


Nintendo 0.93m

The Simpsons Game
Electronic Arts 0.92m

Boogie
Electronic Arts 0.92m

GT Pro Series
Ubisoft 0.92m

Game Party 2
Midway Games 0.92m

Guitar Hero: Aerosmith
Activision 0.92m

WWE SmackDown! vs. RAW 2008
THQ 0.91m

Monster 4x4: World Circuit
Ubisoft 0.91m

Guinness World Records: The Videogame
Warner Bros. Interactive 0.90m

Lego Batman: The Videogame
Warner Bros. Interactive 0.90m

Excite Truck


Nintendo 0.89m

Sega Superstars Tennis
Sega 0.88m

Ratatouille
THQ 0.87m

Tiger Woods PGA Tour 07
EA Sports 0.87m

Naruto: Clash of Ninja Revolution
Tomy Corporation 0.87m

Need for Speed: ProStreet
Electronic Arts 0.86m

Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix
Electronic Arts 0.85m

Blazing Angels: Squadrons of WWII
Ubisoft 0.85m

Madden NFL 09 All-Play (US & Others sales)
Electronic Arts 0.84m

Wall-E
THQ 0.83m

High School Musical 3: Senior Year DANCE!
Disney Interactive Studios 0.82m

Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End
Disney Interactive Studios 0.82m

MySims Kingdom
Electronic Arts 0.79m

Madden NFL 09 All-Play (US sales)
Electronic Arts 0.79m

Winter Sports: The Ultimate Challenge
Conspiracy Entertainment 0.78m

New Play Control! Mario Power Tennis
Nintendo 0.78m

Jillian Michaels' Fitness Ultimatum 2009
Majesco 0.78m

Rockstar Games presents Table Tennis
Rockstar Games 0.76m

NERF N-Strike
Electronic Arts 0.75m

Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity
Sega 0.74m

Kung Fu Panda
Activision 0.71m
Obviously there are more party/casual/kid games than what you may expect on the ps360 but there is variety in this list. I think that in regard to the Wii editor/publishers are complaining because they can't touch what Nintendo is achieving with its own titles but there is definitively room for various games party/casual or standard just don't bet your house on it. Joker454 have a point here (not in regard to whatever Activision may or may not do) editors have to push titles for cheap no matter the genre.
 
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I figure it this way, a cheap PS3 port may cost about as much as making a regular Wii game (it actually probably costs more to do the PS3 port, but lets just say it's the same for the sake of argument), and it definitely costs more than porting some 360 games to the Wii which I've seen done by as little as two people. So even if 80% of the work is already done, I don't know if it's worth more to keep chasing small but predictable PS3 port sales numbers (just talking about the low sellers here) instead of using it to get a better foothold in the Wii world. I'm all for multi platform, I've always thought it makes the most sense, but when you have some titles possibly in the <200k sales range, then personally I'd just nuke those and move those teams to greener pastures. But just my opinion :)
Nonetheless, it still doesn't make sense to nuke the PS3 ports. Instead of making five 360 games and five Wii games like you're suggesting, you make four PS3/360 games and five Wii games. You probably spend less money, and definately sell more.

If Wii has higher ROI than a PS3 port, then Wii is even more promising than the 360 game that this PS3 port is based on. It makes no sense to avoid PS3.
Just to be clear so that people don't get riled up, I'd only advocate cutting low selling PS3 titles to shift to the Wii experiment.
Just how do you expect doing that? With a crystal ball?

You don't decide to do a port after you already sell the 360 version. You do it at the beginning. If a title is only expected to sell < 300k copies on the 360 (and < 200k on the PS3) and this title is still given the green light, then clearly it must not have had a high development cost. The PS3 port, then, is also likely to have a low dev cost.
 
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In regard to millions sellers on the Wii quiet editor has been succesful as accordingly more than 50 titles (51 actually)sold more than 1million units. All the "only Nintendo makes money on the Wii" mantra have been proven false quiet some time.
this here for the wiii fifty best sellers, games sell for sell than a ps3 game but cost less to do.
Has it been proven false? In the top 50 list you gave, 73% of the sales are from Nintendo (61% when excluding Wii Sports and Wii Play). Most of the remaining sellers are from franchises that predate the Wii (Sonic, Lego, Guitar Hero, RE, etc.).

So really there isn't much room for big success in new Wii titles. Cheap shovelware and ports (with <1M) are the only consistent moneymakers if you aren't Nintendo and don't already have a major PS2/GC hit franchise.
 
Just how do you expect doing that? With a crystal ball?

Before any product is made, there are sales projected for it, that's standard practice. How else do you think publishers decide what to bring to market, and what not to bring to market? They get flooded with product, product suggestions, etc, they live by this data. Being many years into this generation, the sales dudes have lots of history to work from as well to improve their data projections. Whatever falls below a certain sales estimate threshold gets cut. This happens all the time. Incidentally, this also already happens on 360/PS3 games (as in skip PS3 for game 'X'), it's just currently doesn't happen frequently enough to really be noticed. In other words, skipping the PS3 sku of a product is hardly a revolutionary idea as it already happens.
 
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Has it been proven false? In the top 50 list you gave, 73% of the sales are from Nintendo (61% when excluding Wii Sports and Wii Play). Most of the remaining sellers are from franchises that predate the Wii (Sonic, Lego, Guitar Hero, RE, etc.).

So really there isn't much room for big success in new Wii titles. Cheap shovelware and ports (with <1M) are the only consistent moneymakers if you aren't Nintendo and don't already have a major PS2/GC hit franchise.

Nintendo has a stable of games which appeal to their core and beyond their core audience. Its not the fault of the third parties and its not the fault of Nintendo that the third party publishers don't have that kind of relationship with Nintendos core audience at least. Nintendo has a stable of Mario, Mario Kart etc which will always sell 5M+ and will always skew the results towards the 1st party side of the equation at the top of the tables. If you look at their history, top selling games are simply what they do best. Now surely you've seen the reports by NPD showing the third party attach rate over the much larger Wii audience to be equal to the PS3 and you must have seen statements saying that the Wii sold more third party software in the U.S. than the Xbox 360 I think last year.
 
skipping the PS3 sku of a product is hardly a revolutionary idea as it already happens.

Do you have any examples? If i understand it correctly, what your arguing is that what we consider bad games isn´t coming to the PS3 because it´s not worth it for the publisher.
 
Do you have any examples? If i understand it correctly, what your arguing is that what we consider bad games isn´t coming to the PS3 because it´s not worth it for the publisher.

The only recent game I can think of off the top of my head were the Crash Bandicoot games.
 
Has it been proven false? In the top 50 list you gave, 73% of the sales are from Nintendo (61% when excluding Wii Sports and Wii Play). Most of the remaining sellers are from franchises that predate the Wii (Sonic, Lego, Guitar Hero, RE, etc.).
You speak in volume right? But if you look the number of titles that reach acceptable sales the figure isn't that bad.
So really there isn't much room for big success in new Wii titles. Cheap shovelware and ports (with <1M) are the only consistent moneymakers if you aren't Nintendo and don't already have a major PS2/GC hit franchise.
The problem here is that Nintendo doesn't provide editor/publisher with a proper advertisement channel. The people I know that own a Wii don't read any videogame sites, when they are out for a game they have to rely on some pretty well known IP. Basically editor/publisher are facing a marketing problem it's expansive to make costumer aware of your product and its value. Basically the problem is that Nintendo doesn't have the proper on line platform to push demo and ads.
That's an issue for sure as TV ads are expansive.
But clearly looks the ps3 charts and how fast it goes down the million trade some hardcore games for kid/casual games and the situation can't be considered worse on Wii for editor. And they won't sell +20 millons but it's not a reason to give up on the platform PS3 best seller is ~5 millions.
And not too mention that editors no matter they complain have been late to shift resources to the wii. They have to find theirs marks on this market they will, but the situation is not bad.
 
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Million seller conversion ratio.

If we consider Metacritic and the Vgchartz sales list (Complain all you want but first find me a better source)

Xbox 360: 647 games, 65 million sellers, 10% conversion ratio.

PS3: 352 games, 31 million sellers 8.8% conversion ratio.

Wii: Oh god, err 682 games according to the main site for U.S. releases and 51 million sellers or a 7.5% conversion ratio.

From what I can determine, it isn't too bad for the Wii.
 
The problem here is that Nintendo doesn't provide editor/publisher with a proper advertisement channel. The people I know that own a Wii don't read any videogame sites, when they are out for a game they have to rely on some pretty well known IP.
IGN was not "provided" by Sony or Microsoft for publishers to advertise their products. It's an independent company. Rather, publishers advertise on IGN, 1up, etc because that is where PS3 and Xbox fans go. Wii publishers need to figure out how to reach their customers, which means figuring out where they go. Wii's a mainstream product, which means advertising through the enthusiast press is a bad idea. More Wii publishers are looking at alternative advertising venues these days for that reason.
 
My point is that "live' is quiet a good place to know what games are going to ship or learn of some anticipated games.
Every time I turn my 360 (if I weren't spending too much time on internet) I learn what games have ship and new demo are easy to spot. I'm speaking of that kind of channel to inform your consumers, this type of advertisement/information is even more relevant with casual not likely to read a lot about video game news.
 
Joker is referring to opportunity cost, which is a very real influence in these decisions. However I disagree with his argument. 5 separate Wii games costing the same (resource/effort/cash) to make from the ground up as one PS3 port of a 360 game is way off IMO.

If these games joker is referring to (presumably smaller budget, smaller sales prediction titles) drop PS3, then why not drop all HD asset generation as suddenly the Wii is two thirds of the target install base? It would save a ton of money to make Wii assets and just tart them up a bit for 360, and of course this would make the no-longer-existing PS3 version much easier and cheaper too - so why not make it anyway? Full circle.

No console is "maxed out", it's ridiculous to suggest so. But it's just as ridiculous to say that one group of developers is making games exclusively for console X, and is coding specifically for that console to get the absolute best they can out of it (given the usual time/resource/knowledge/experience constraints), while another group of developers is making games exclusively for console Y, and is not making a similar effort to get the best out of that console, instead working as if they were developing crossplatform for an imaginary alternative platform.
 
Before any product is made, there are sales projected for it, that's standard practice. How else do you think publishers decide what to bring to market, and what not to bring to market?
Uhh, did you even read my post? Of course I know this, and even directly said so.

My point is that a lesser seller that is given the green light must have lower development costs, too. It would use an existing game engine that is probably already multiplatform or close to it. The cost of porting would be a lot smaller than for big titles, so it doesn't change anything.

If these games joker is referring to (presumably smaller budget, smaller sales prediction titles) drop PS3, then why not drop all HD asset generation as suddenly the Wii is two thirds of the target install base? It would save a ton of money to make Wii assets and just tart them up a bit for 360, and of course this would make the no-longer-existing PS3 version much easier and cheaper too - so why not make it anyway? Full circle.
Exactly my point.

If Wii games are judged to have high return, you drop a whole HD title or two to make room for them, not a bunch of cheap PS3 ports (or, equivalently, the PS3 aspect of MP titles).
 
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Now surely you've seen the reports by NPD showing the third party attach rate over the much larger Wii audience to be equal to the PS3 and you must have seen statements saying that the Wii sold more third party software in the U.S. than the Xbox 360 I think last year.
Yes it did, and this is overwhelmingly achieved through shovelware, not innovative, new IP million sellers.

You speak in volume right? But if you look the number of titles that reach acceptable sales the figure isn't that bad.
I'm not saying that it is bad. However, if you don't have a cash cow from last generation, you have much lower chances at a big hit than on 360/PS3. It would be silly to sacrifice near guaranteed revenue on the PS3 simply because you want to take a crack at hitting a homerun on the Wii.
 
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