Accurate human rendering in game [2014-2016]

Status
Not open for further replies.
Until Dawn's faces fluctuate between moments of sheer and utter brilliance (a lot of Josh's monologues for example), where it almost - almost! - looks like I'm watching a film. And a lot of parts where the movements are, well, "videogamey".

But the models themselves are absolutely stunning and by far the best I've seen in my life, for a realtime game. It's obvious that the faces had the largest budget - as soon as you look at any other body part, you start seeing some polygon edges and lower res textures, which is understandable.
 
I think in many games the rendering model are good. The illusion break with facial animation and I think the best facial animation are done by Naughty Dog but may are pretty good. TI played only one game on PS4 with very bad facials animation Killzone Shadow Fall...
Naughty Dog's facial animations look very good but still far from being real like. Their talent is in the fact that despite not looking real they look very pleasant to the eye.
 
It's a few weeks old, maybe it was - but it's not that important for now, IMHO. Video game systems don't yet have the resolution or image quality where this feature would become noticeable; it's something we probably would only see on PS5/Xwhatever level consoles later on, when image quality for 1080p could get beyond a single shading sample per pixel. Until that it'd be a waste of resources IMHO.
 
Does that Hayden model display any sharper wrinkles at all? Like the smile wrinkles or on the bridge of the nose or crow's feet at the corners of the eyes.

attachment.php


That's what I'm missing, apart from more defined skin detail.

Edit: found a better image.
 
That picture is altered with photoshop + ton of heavy makeup...not to mention botox injections and I see signs of plastic surgery.
It's as "unnatural" as Until Dawn, actually more ;)
 
Last edited:
Yeah it's obviously photoshopped - skin is smoothed out, teeth probably whitened, eyes and reflections tweaked etc. - but nevertheless, the facial wrinkles are still quite visible, even the tiny ones around the eyes.

These are actually pretty damn important, as our vision system (including how the brain interprets images) is highly tuned to notice these features, in order to interpret the emotional state of the human in front of us, which is an evolutionary advantage. You can actually tell that the retouching was done by a highly skilled artist, because these wrinkles are completely preserved, despite the almost complete loss of all other skin detail. Less skilled DTP operators and software solutions would probably smooth out these as well, leading to a less pleasing / more disturbing result.

Funnily enough, facial expression wrinkles are something that most celebrities (especially women) hate with a passion. The reason is that the resulting wear weakens the skin tissue and the wrinkle lines will eventually become permanent, even when the face is in a neutral expression.
If anyone has watched Coupling (a great British show), there's this sort of running gag about Sally. She states that now that she's turned 30, there's only a limited number of smiles left to her before her facial skin becomes all wrinkly and old; so from now on, she's only going to smile at handsome men ;)
This is also the reason behind using Botox and face lift plastic surgery, the aim is to try to preserve the appearance of youthful skin that hasn't yet been stressed hard. But none of these work particularly well IMHO, you can almost always tell that something's wrong; and that's also why these people look weird and appalling.
Also, I strongly believe that there has to be a genetic element in this. See, I'm 37 and yet there are almost no lines on my face, expect the 'smile' wrinkles at the nasolabial fold; whereas I've worked with a guy who's still only 29 and yet there are some pretty deep lines on his forehead ;)

Going back to CG characters, I think the conclusion should be pretty straight now - the lack of such strong wrinkles while making various facial expressions will inevitably feel weird, just like looking at people who did Botox or plastic surgery. It also makes it harder for our brain to interpret the facial expressions and thus the underlying emotional states, making us feel alienated from the character, ruining even a generally super realistic face.
And I also have to note that I suspect the lack of these features on UD's certain faces are not a result of the art team's lack of understanding, and have more to do with the talent's unreasonable demands... ;)
 
Does that Hayden model display any sharper wrinkles at all? Like the smile wrinkles or on the bridge of the nose or crow's feet at the corners of the eyes.
supplies very heavy madeup/photoshopped (digitally altered) image
yeeeeeowch ...own goal ..., Laa-Yoosh

the thread is called
Accurate human rendering in game
:mrgreen:
 
Yeah it's obviously photoshopped - skin is smoothed out, teeth probably whitened, eyes and reflections tweaked etc. - but nevertheless, the facial wrinkles are still quite visible, even the tiny ones around the eyes.

These are actually pretty damn important, as our vision system (including how the brain interprets images) is highly tuned to notice these features, in order to interpret the emotional state of the human in front of us, which is an evolutionary advantage. You can actually tell that the retouching was done by a highly skilled artist, because these wrinkles are completely preserved, despite the almost complete loss of all other skin detail. Less skilled DTP operators and software solutions would probably smooth out these as well, leading to a less pleasing / more disturbing result.

Only some of the wrinkles has been preserved and anyway she looks very "modified", without those wrinkles she would look even more "modified".
Personally I find that the "artist" here modified too much,: the discrepancy between the skin of the cheeks, the forehead and the wrinkles next to her nose is too excessive, I would have kept more wrinkles and possibly without make her look "old"...I would not have modified the chin, why do they keep doing that.
BTW below you can see how she would look like without the wrinkles (5' of photoshop by me so forgive the low quality)

Going back to CG characters, I think the conclusion should be pretty straight now - the lack of such strong wrinkles while making various facial expressions will inevitably feel weird, just like looking at people who did Botox or plastic surgery. It also makes it harder for our brain to interpret the facial expressions and thus the underlying emotional states, making us feel alienated from the character, ruining even a generally super realistic face.
And I also have to note that I suspect the lack of these features on UD's certain faces are not a result of the art team's lack of understanding, and have more to do with the talent's unreasonable demands... ;)

From an anatomical point of view then yes the lack of wrinkles makes it look unnatural but IMO is in part due to "technical limitations" and in part due to "artistic" choice.
 

Attachments

  • Hayden mod.jpg
    Hayden mod.jpg
    863.1 KB · Views: 18
Last edited:
It's perfectly possible to recreate those wrinkles, even Mass Effect 1 and Uncharted 1 had wrinkle maps. They also have Hayden's scans as source material.

It was an artistic decision, or maybe somewhat political as well... ;)
 
I wonder why the face of the computer model is also much slimmer than the Hayden's face. It is quite jarring imo...maybe also political??
 
I wonder why the face of the computer model is also much slimmer than the Hayden's face. It is quite jarring imo...maybe also political??

She's slim irl, maybe weird photograph

Hayden-Panettiere-Short-Straight-Haircut-for-Women.jpg

Hayden-Panettiere-Bob-Haircut.jpg

Oh and they probably made her look a bit younger since the character is in her early 20s.
 
Last edited:
It's perfectly possible to recreate those wrinkles, even Mass Effect 1 and Uncharted 1 had wrinkle maps. They also have Hayden's scans as source material.

It was an artistic decision, or maybe somewhat political as well... ;)

Mass Effect wrinkles were terrible, better plastic smooth skin than that ;)
 
Last edited:
It's perfectly possible to recreate those wrinkles, even Mass Effect 1 and Uncharted 1 had wrinkle maps. They also have Hayden's scans as source material.

It was an artistic decision, or maybe somewhat political as well... ;)
{bolded for emphasis}

I wonder if this will actually become an impediment to getting to 'photorealism', ie that photos of famous people don't have much realism to them. After all we're seeing motion pictures and TV starting to adopt technology that allows them to impose photoshop filters to people in camera so will games be able to get actors to sign off on appearing in a truly 'natural' state? It was quite noticable to me that the femal models in particular had much more of the uncanny valley feel due to a sort of 'photoshopped' look.
 
Until Dawn, skin can look rough or soft depending on lighting
21103125943_c644ed7009_o.jpg

21705283706_13b16f1dd6_o.jpg

21724138365_dd67b715b2_o.jpg

21101417234_173f4f1927_o.jpg

21536181570_6984ea5be4_o.jpg

21698048416_ea02293f9d_o.jpg

21705289326_fd3b6c5043_o.jpg

21731375435_9b2bb7a21c_o.jpg


Does that Hayden model display any sharper wrinkles at all? Like the smile wrinkles or on the bridge of the nose or crow's feet at the corners of the eyes.

That's what I'm missing, apart from more defined skin detail.

Some wrinkle deformation during gameplay (if you wait around it's focusing on the characters face), i was surprised to see them animating the dialogue during gameplay to this extend
RepulsiveDistantAffenpinscher.gif
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top