A musing on the prices of consoles

From a 20 GB PS3, you'd also need a USB Wifi adaptor. I dunno what particulars work but presume one can be had for <$30, so I'll make it $40 to be sure...

...

With XB360, you'd need the Elite + HD DVD drive + Wifi adaptor + recharge kit and powerpack + Live...

Wifi - $100

Good work Shifty, especially demonstrating through the numbers the different focuses of the two company and their perceptions of customer needs, but I do have some nitpicks. Not really apples to apples on the WiFi. Why is it the PS3 path gets to go a cheapo USB WiFi path and yet the 360 has to go with an expensive a/b/g path when much cheaper solutions are available (like a bridge, readily sold at retailers for last gen consoles and available at stores like Walmart in the US specifically targetting the 360)? That doesn't really make sense to me to include a premium product in one and a cheaper less functional one in the other IF the purpose of the exercise is to create parity. It may not be a feature you or I need, but for those looking for a media center it could be an important feature.

or get a cheap alternative

And for a relative price comparison it really should as those cheaper solutions are sold right next to the 360...

UNLESS you are going to go out and put an a/b/g WiFi device on the PS3 to make up the extra ;) Which would add $80!

Oh, you'd also have to add headset prices, which I didn't factor because it not a feature that springs to mind to me!

It would if you were an online gamers :p

Well... not really. I have a general hate-hate relationship with wireless devices. I hate charging batteries and like the affordability and reliability of wired devices... which tend to perform better as well.

I think this highlights the key difference in approach between the companies.

It does, their focus is quite different because their vision of their typical consumer is different. Which is right depends on the consumer.

Take connectivity. MS sees a lot of online gaming and hence appears to discourage WiFi unless you may have a HTPC whereas Sony appears to encourage WiFi usage which dovetails with their media orientation quite well.

Everyone is different, but at the cost of both of the consoles I don't see a lot of consumers walking in and buying much more than a console, 2 or 3 games at most, and an extra controller. This sort of price sensativity is something I think needs to be a core aspect of the platform design. Anything that is a low-value hurdle to the walk out of the store purchase needs to be examined, cost-reward, etc.

For those complaining PS3 is too expensive, for what it is, it's good economy.

Value is a fuzzy thing. What is valuable to you isn't to me. WiFi may be great for you for media and horrible to me as an online gamer.

So ultimately the issue falls to the market price points of perceived value for core/common use. In which case the consumer market clearly shows that there are products with insane value and quality, and a price to go along with such, but sell VERY poorly compared to simpler, but more cost-accessible, products that dominate the market.

Being overpriced isn't an issue of value if your market is sales dependant like consoles. In which case overpriced is simple a metric of whether consumers are willing to pay money for said product types. There is a reason why those cheap-o DVD players were killer apps when much higher quality and feature rich DVD players didn't net nearly the sales or sales influence by penetrating the mainstream. They are simply overpriced for mainstream consumers.

Based on that right now both HD consoles are overpriced.

It's important to see them as distinct products for different markets to see where the pricing represents better value.

I could agree with that if the PS3 also had a different economy in regards to game development and the retail cost of games.

In the end they are both going for the same market but

a) are aiming for different niches
b) have a different orientation to current consumer needs and desires
c) have different views of the direction of the market

The primary core of the market really is gaming. That does have a lot of forces, but critical mass is one of them which impacts developer support and ultimately consumer adoption.
 
That's true. But I saw an interesting statistic from MS themselves about usage habits of the 360. According to their surveys, 360 owners spend 40% of their time on 360 doing things unrelated to gaming. This was one of the things they put out there when asked about the reasoning for the Elite model, an apparent appeal to a 'living room box'. It's something to consider..I can't remember how many times I've heard (some) people say "but I'm just interested in gaming". That statistic, and history has suggested most people aren't just interested in gaming. People might resent extra-gaming functionality when we're talking about the prices of these systems now, but I think over time when prices come down, you'll see less opposition to those features, if not outright enthusiasm.

Yet it doesn't really matter what people spend their time doing if it isn't a motivation to purchase the device. I know a lot of people who mess around with Live, the Market Place, and the XBLA and yet those were the reasons to buy the platform and in some cases were not even known when purchasing the product.

Likewise, some uses (e.g. watching a DVD) are uses that are done out of convenience (swapping cables or AV setups) or because the 360 has displaced a less functional device (like a DVD player). So in neither case the 360 would not have been a reason to purchase the 360 but it finds itself filling such a role due to other factors. So the relationships are not always linear nor carry the same weight at the checkout counter.
 
Yet it doesn't really matter what people spend their time doing if it isn't a motivation to purchase the device.

That is true. As another example, I've seen a number of comments to the effect that a person had zero interest, if not contempt, for HD movies, and then suddenly having bought a PS3 they are interested. How you use a console, and how you think you'll use it prior to purchase may be two different things. The challenge for a MS or a Sony is to encourage a desire for such functionality before purchase, rather than waiting for that desire to emerge 'accidentally' afterwards, as a consequence of its coincidental availability alongside whatever else the person actively bought the system for.
 
Seems like a double standard when you measure an el cheapo HDMI cable vs the "official Sony one" for $50 or so... what's the official price?
That's true. I wasn't aware there was an official Sony HDMI cable at stupid pricing. You can obivously save money by going with unofficial solutions and special deals, but I wanted to compare the offical RRPs as indicative of what the companies themselves are aiming for. If you don't play it their way (getting rechargeables instead of the XB360 powerpack + kit) obviously you save a bundle.

The main point to my musings wasn't to get accurate pricings, but an overview. I'm sure some best-case savings could be factored in. Looknig at the pricing strategy, we see the MS thinks people, at the moment, don't want the extra features. That's something people will add over time. Sony are thinking everyone's going to want this stuff. Perhaps early adopters already have HDTVs and are keen to get BRD + HDMI? And later in PS3's life, more owners will be buying HDTVs. It shows a very different approach to winning mindshare. Kinda like one nightclub with cheap entry price and more expensive drinks (free water) and another nightclub with higher entrance price but cheaper drinks (and two beers/cocktails included in the price whether you want them or not).

That's clearly just the basic economics. There's other values to consider on content, ability to game with friends (if 4 friends have XB360s, do you want a PS3 and not be able to play online against them or share games?), services, HD format, etc. In the above analogy, the door prices tell you nothing of what the inside is like. You don't find that out until you pay to enter, so have to make the choice before hand. That's where a large part of console choice comes in, I think. Price is a big factor, and not an indicator of value (which as Joshua points out is sibjective), so MS have gone with lowest visible price, while Sony have gone with a lowest package price, each thinking that's what the market wants.

Basically they're both good value for money for their entrance targets. Although I do wonder XB360 owners upgrading ever consider their final expense, or do those that see PS3 as too expensive still think of it as such? I can refer exactly to my friend. He thinks PS3 is too expensive which was a reason to get the XB360. Not a lot of consideration went into features and long-term usage change such as not wanting HD movies now, but wanting them in the not too distant future. If he ends up adding the 120GB HDD and HD DVD, PS3's expense wasn't high. In that case it was the perception of a higher cost that deterred him, which would illustrate how MS can appeal to the 'full on' user with the appearance of cost-effectiveness. That'd be good marketting if it works.
 
Apparently, only Microsoft hardware fails. The Sixaxis controller will still be functioning a thousand years from now on the same battery pack, possibly without even a recharge. :p

You can change the battery, next question.
 
this cant be right

$299.99 Xbox 360 Core
$39.92 64MB Memory Unit Note: Needed for storing game saves

ie sure there must be like 8mb or something built in? if not then noone sane can quote the core being at $299

Sure they can, just like they can quote the PS2 at being 129 or 99 (i dunno whatever the price is). Just cause you need a memory card to save doesn't mean you can't play a game.
 
the PS3 is a legitimate gaming machine; maybe not now, but it will be soon enough. it IS only 4 months old... how many games do you expect it to have?
the PlayStation will always be pushed as a Gaming machine first. whatever else it does is just a bonus. and if you buy the PS3 for something else (such as a standalone blu-ray player), by all means.

That, honestly wasn't my whole point. My point is Sony has a great machine that can do lots of thing so why the hell haven't they promoted that? To just rely on the Playstation name to me mean they aren't too confident in all the other things that it can do, much to the dismay of the loyal followers. I mean what kind of argument is: It will have good games, it is a videogame system that just hapens to play BR? Screw that Sony could completely screw Toshiba by making one big push as a High Def MOVIE player.

I know the "value" of the system, but that doesn't mean that "value" is of use to everyone.

I have:
"Premium" 360: 399
Extra Controller :59 ?
Play and charge kit: 20
Extra Battery :10
Vision Cam : 39
HD-DVD Drive (No region encoding FTW!!!) :199
Total Cost: 726 (Not counting the 20 games I own)

And I would have gotten a PS3 had it came out at the same time instead of the 360...
 

If you're going to fix that, you have to fix the equivalent on the 360. If you're going to buy a 120GB drive, you'd sell the 20GB one on the premium, which you could probably sell for about $60-$70. Also, if you insist on a wireless controller for the core model, you could sell the wired controller for about $20. You can't have it one way for the PS3 and another for the 360.
 
If you're going to fix that, you have to fix the equivalent on the 360. If you're going to buy a 120GB drive, you'd sell the 20GB one on the premium, which you could probably sell for about $60-$70. Also, if you insist on a wireless controller for the core model, you could sell the wired controller for about $20. You can't have it one way for the PS3 and another for the 360.

Oh sorry I missed the 360 one..

It wasn't intentional I assure you..:smile:
 
5 screws, aparently it´s detailed somewhere as well in official Sony form. question is if Sony is gonna sell the battery, bets are they will :)
Regardless, then one would need to add in the price of the "replacement battery". This was the whole point; someone was trying to argue that you have to add in the cost of the rechargeable battery or the cost of the warranty to the Xbox 360.
 
In my case it was

PS3 60GB: 599

Done. :) Already had an HDMI cable that I used for something else before (typically sold here at €29,99, but as mentioned they go for $7.10 online)).

(There are also some peripheral advantages though ... For me most notably that would be the two Logitech Driving Force Pro wheels I have, but I was also already going to get a BluTooth headset for my new phone that I can share, as well as PC keyboards, mice and webcams I already have lying around, as well as stuff I can still use for PSX and PS2 compatible games, like multitaps etc. But I'll keep those out of the discussion for now)
 
Regardless, then one would need to add in the price of the "replacement battery". This was the whole point; someone was trying to argue that you have to add in the cost of the rechargeable battery or the cost of the warranty to the Xbox 360.

You just don't get it. The Sixaxis is rechargeable, the 360 needs a play and charge pack ($30). That's a real cost, end of story.
 
You just don't get it. The Sixaxis is rechargeable, the 360 needs a play and charge pack ($30). That's a real cost, end of story.
No, I get it. I'm just suggesting that it's not really accurate to add in the cost of renewable items, or at least, to only add it in from one side. Like others have said, you can buy batteries or use batteries that you already have around the house.

It does fit the overall model though, assuming a rechargeable controller was something the consumer wanted: with the PS3, it's there. With the Xbox 360, it's optional.

Quick Edit: Also, it absolutely does not need a play and charge pack. That's really stretching to prove your point.
 
It does fit the overall model though, assuming a rechargeable controller was something the consumer wanted: with the PS3, it's there. With the Xbox 360, it's optional.

Quick Edit: Also, it absolutely does not need a play and charge pack. That's really stretching to prove your point.

It's optional but most people buy it and the controllers are the same price. Again, it's about value.
 
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